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Old 08-05-2013, 10:47 AM   #26
FoxUK
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If the issue on WCG's account went away after he formatted the disk then it is obviously not a router hack.
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:49 AM   #27
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Originally Posted by invictus-1 View Post
how are these guys so unbelievably dumb? do they not play poker at all? how can anyone possibly think that making it this obvious that you're hacking will lead to anything other having your account frozen and funds returned? **** makes no sense.
I don't think that it is that they are dumb, but that they are extremely arrogant and think that they are too smart to get caught.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:24 AM   #28
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Originally Posted by FoxUK View Post
If the issue on WCG's account went away after he formatted the disk then it is obviously not a router hack.
The first time but the first time it was just him - the second time Josh returned they replaced the router and that fixed the problem. It's possible first time round was a PC hack and second time round was a router hack.

Just saying it's possible.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:31 AM   #29
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Let me first say that I don't know JM or the other people involved, but I have to agree with Viffer here. OK, with the Girah thing, maybe JM was in the wrong place at the wrong time so he can get a a pass. Though when he is involved in a second instance I think it is naive to completely rule him out or at the very least not question his involvement. Where there is smoke, there is almost always fire and he has had smoke coming off of him twice now.

Also people usually surround themselves and hangout with people who they see as like themselves. Druggies typically hang out with druggies, poker players hang with other poker players, and scammers hang out with other scammers. So if JM, is friends with these type of people what does it say about his character?
i disagree -
Scammers hang out with naive people because well, they are out to scam, you cannot scam another scammer, so that oughta be false, druggers hang out with other druggers to not be judged, have someone to chill with and so on, same goes with poker players, it is easier this way in alot of ways, every pokerplayer knows how it is to hang with your IRL friends who is busto..there is no ill intent involved, but with scammer it is, there is a end goal and it is to take manies.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:41 AM   #30
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Originally Posted by jungleman
Andrew Feldman told me he had hacked people and used to collude with him however this was like 8 years ago or something ridic and Andrew Feldman himself has ****ed over almost every friend of his (including myself) and would almost certainly lie/exaggerate about someone he didnt like. I looked into his allegations and could not find any real evidence to support them
You knew he had a shady history when you introduced him to WCG?

So a scumbag told you of his illegal doings with another scumbag and because you couldnt find evidence and initial person is a scumbag then it didn't happen?

Its disappointing to see your name tied to even a loose concern in any way. Most HS players avoid blemishes like this on their record out of sheer caution and concern for the longevity of their business doings.

I've heard you also felt it possible that others "close" to you in poker have scammed you similarly to OP in unrelated incidents.

I'm in no way implicating jungle or the suspect in the OP. I am however advising that you, jungleman, take a step back and reevaluate your business relationships and general approach to your work. Even if you're guilty of nothing more than ignorance and being oblivious or presumptuous, others might develop legit cause for concern when it comes to dealing with you or people that you introduce them to. I dont think you realize that your reputation and integrity are called into question even for loose affiliations. You should really take these things deeply and seriously if you're not already.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:45 AM   #31
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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So a scumbag told you of his illegal doings with another scumbag and because you couldnt find evidence and initial person is a scumbag then it didn't happen?

Its disappointing to see your name tied to even a loose concern in any way. Most HS players avoid blemishes like this on their record out of sheer caution and concern for the longevity of their business doings.

I've heard you also felt it possible that others "close" to you in poker have scammed you similarly to OP in unrelated incidents.

I'm in no way implicating jungle or the suspect in the OP. I am however advising that you, jungleman, take a step back and reevaluate your business relationships and general approach to your work. Even if you're guilty of nothing more than ignorance and being oblivious or presumptuous, others might develop legit cause for concern when it comes to dealing with you or people that you introduce them to. I dont think you realize that your reputation and integrity are called into question even for loose affiliations. You should really take these things deeply and seriously if you're not already.
+1 well said. Again, I don't know JM personally and from speaking with a few friends/acquaintances, tbh have heard nothing but good things and that he is possibly over trusting like another poster said. Though when you are a big name in any industry, you have to be very careful or your associations.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:07 PM   #32
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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PLease tell me what part of my statement is slander? What part isnt true?
implying i am part of how WCG got hacked is slander and completely absurd. It's actually insane to consider I was involved since I've been friends with him since like 2009 (thanks for defending me WCG)

Is this part of your way of getting out of paying me 300k? Are you freerolling your bets for the durrr challenge for a million or what? can you even pay if you lose?

Last edited by jungleman; 08-05-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:21 PM   #33
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Originally Posted by DanZorbas View Post
You knew he had a shady history when you introduced him to WCG?

So a scumbag told you of his illegal doings with another scumbag and because you couldnt find evidence and initial person is a scumbag then it didn't happen?

Its disappointing to see your name tied to even a loose concern in any way. Most HS players avoid blemishes like this on their record out of sheer caution and concern for the longevity of their business doings.

I've heard you also felt it possible that others "close" to you in poker have scammed you similarly to OP in unrelated incidents.

I'm in no way implicating jungle or the suspect in the OP. I am however advising that you, jungleman, take a step back and reevaluate your business relationships and general approach to your work. Even if you're guilty of nothing more than ignorance and being oblivious or presumptuous, others might develop legit cause for concern when it comes to dealing with you or people that you introduce them to. I dont think you realize that your reputation and integrity are called into question even for loose affiliations. You should really take these things deeply and seriously if you're not already.
Dude Feldman is a complete tosser, not just a scumbag. He remembers things in an absurdly biased way only from his perspective. In addition I could not find any details of anybody Josh hacked, from him or from anyone. I even texted somebody reputable who seemed to know Josh about this and he said basically hes heard awful things about Feldman as well.

However, I think I should have treated it with more caution. To be fair, doug's way of how i introduced him is exaggerated--I don't recall saying he was a good friend or good guy and I certainly didnt vouch for him. I did say I wanted him to meet Josh though... However, at some point Im pretty sure I asked him "what do you think of Josh?" I recall him saying he thought he was cool.

I dont feel that I am responsible for Doug hanging out with him after that. However, I feel bad that I introduced him to Doug in the first place, and in the future decided that I will tell him and others my briefings on how much I trust them in the future. I will take this more seriously in the future

Last edited by jungleman; 08-05-2013 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:43 PM   #34
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

I thought playing on stars was illegal in usa?
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:51 PM   #35
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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I thought playing on stars was illegal in usa?
Apparently this is a running problem with the wording.

In the first paragraph under the pokerstars section, im talking about playing poker in Japan. The reason for my excitement is that I am able to play on pokerstars being that I am outside of the country. I spend part of my time in vegas, part of my time in canada, and then part of my traveling abroad.

At no point in this story did i play a hand of poker on pokerstars while being in Las Vegas.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:54 PM   #36
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Originally Posted by jungleman View Post
Dude Feldman is a complete tosser, not just a scumbag. He remembers things in an absurdly biased way only from his perspective. In addition I could not find any details of anybody Josh hacked, from him or from anyone. I even texted somebody reputable who seemed to know Josh about this and he said basically hes heard awful things about Feldman as well.
Im from uk (though dont know either of my countrymen involved).

And I am being pedantic here, but wrt this 1st sentence, I believe you have it mixed up. The sentence SHOULD read 'Feldman is a complete scumbag, not just a tosser'.

The way you have it reads like being a tosser is worse than being a scumbag. Whereas, in this community and what op's topic's about (people trying to protect their bankrolls from unprincipled (illegal?) behaviour) the standard hierarchy of values is the correct 1.

Stop vouching for/trusting scumbags is the moral of the story here.

Though I would like to know what wcg could have done different. Not associated with other poker players? Locked his laptops in a safe? (Would they have protected the router hacking? (Or whatever, I'm not tech savvy))
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:05 PM   #37
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Originally Posted by ralph cifaretto View Post
Im from uk (though dont know either of my countrymen involved).

And I am being pedantic here, but wrt this 1st sentence, I believe you have it mixed up. The sentence SHOULD read 'Feldman is a complete scumbag, not just a tosser'.

The way you have it reads like being a tosser is worse than being a scumbag. Whereas, in this community and what op's topic's about (people trying to protect their bankrolls from unprincipled (illegal?) behaviour) the standard hierarchy of values is the correct 1.

Stop vouching for/trusting scumbags is the moral of the story here.

Though I would like to know what wcg could have done different. Not associated with other poker players? Locked his laptops in a safe? (Would they have protected the router hacking? (Or whatever, I'm not tech savvy))
+1, in general, it is most times its not the person being scammed at fault. Obv, hindsight is 20/20 and in the future maybe we need to be more careful but it is always 100% the scammers fault. The situation just becomes that much more tenuous when it is someone we know/trust that introduces us to that such person especially if they in fact have nothing to do with or have no knowledge of it.
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:07 PM   #38
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Originally Posted by WCGRider View Post
Apparently this is a running problem with the wording.

In the first paragraph under the pokerstars section, im talking about playing poker in Japan. The reason for my excitement is that I am able to play on pokerstars being that I am outside of the country. I spend part of my time in vegas, part of my time in canada, and then part of my traveling abroad.

At no point in this story did i play a hand of poker on pokerstars while being in Las Vegas.
What sites were you playing on? Can you please out the names of the other hacker accounts so we can avoid the same fate?
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:52 PM   #39
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Originally Posted by ralph cifaretto View Post
Im from uk (though dont know either of my countrymen involved).

And I am being pedantic here, but wrt this 1st sentence, I believe you have it mixed up. The sentence SHOULD read 'Feldman is a complete scumbag, not just a tosser'.

The way you have it reads like being a tosser is worse than being a scumbag. Whereas, in this community and what op's topic's about (people trying to protect their bankrolls from unprincipled (illegal?) behaviour) the standard hierarchy of values is the correct 1.

Stop vouching for/trusting scumbags is the moral of the story here.

Though I would like to know what wcg could have done different. Not associated with other poker players? Locked his laptops in a safe? (Would they have protected the router hacking? (Or whatever, I'm not tech savvy))
well, im basically saying hes an idiot in addition to being a scumbag

I didnt vouch for Josh, i never said he was nice, certainly didnt say he was trustworthy, or any such thing. Doug could have decided not to invite him over or whatever, especially after the fees car incident. I had no influence whatsoever on this decision.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:13 PM   #40
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Originally Posted by jungleman View Post
Dude Feldman is a complete tosser, not just a scumbag. He remembers things in an absurdly biased way only from his perspective. In addition I could not find any details of anybody Josh hacked, from him or from anyone. I even texted somebody reputable who seemed to know Josh about this and he said basically hes heard awful things about Feldman as well.

However, I think I should have treated it with more caution. To be fair, doug's way of how i introduced him is exaggerated--I don't recall saying he was a good friend or good guy and I certainly didnt vouch for him. I did say I wanted him to meet Josh though... However, at some point Im pretty sure I asked him "what do you think of Josh?" I recall him saying he thought he was cool.

I dont feel that I am responsible for Doug hanging out with him after that. However, I feel bad that I introduced him to Doug in the first place, and in the future decided that I will tell him and others my briefings on how much I trust them in the future. I will take this more seriously in the future
I find it very strange that you insisted that Doug meets Joshua.. Whats your reasoning behind insisting that these two meet eachother? very strange..
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:42 PM   #41
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

go **** yourself please with your bull**** analysis

i shouldnt have to defend myself in this situation

i did not *insist* , and josh said he wanted to online players, or something along those lines (i guess I should have been slightly suspicious about this in retrospect). Josh seemed to know a ton of people in Vegas particularly in the service industry and live poker scene, in addition to being a charming guy. At the time i was interested at being better at networking (josh helped me with this), and it seemed like both parties would benefit.

Last edited by jungleman; 08-05-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:43 PM   #42
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

****ty situation but glad to hear you got some money back from Stars. Is there any way we as a community can start pressing charges and having some of these guys prosecuted/sent to jail? Any lawyers with more insight on getting these guys punished? Maybe when some of them start going to jail, it will deter others.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:04 PM   #43
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

JM, just to add whatever you can to the case to make it even more clear this guy is likely guilty, when you personally reflect back on how he acted, do the pieces start to fall together in very scammer-esque ways? I mean did he seem really eager to meet WGC and others in similar situations? Maybe it wasn't totally over the top, but when looking back on it, did the way he approached meeting others fall in line with being the hacker in this instance? Finally, why do you think you were spared his attacks?

To the above, I just don't get it. There was Girah ADMITTING to stealing money and yet still no legal action was taken? It is so bizarre to me as I have to believe (again, not a lawyer) that these are punishable by law type crimes. Fraud, theft, etc.?
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:35 PM   #44
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Originally Posted by whitelime View Post
****ty situation but glad to hear you got some money back from Stars. Is there any way we as a community can start pressing charges and having some of these guys prosecuted/sent to jail? Any lawyers with more insight on getting these guys punished? Maybe when some of them start going to jail, it will deter others.
paging selbsty
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:58 PM   #45
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

Have all your roommates reformatted their PC's and do you still have the suspect router handy? There could be evidence there.

Also, you can check Skype resolvers to see if you can get any of the IP's he has used, which could potentially be linked to logs found on the router or your roommates PC's.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:39 PM   #46
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

Viffer- you come across as a complete scumbag in this thread insinuating that jungleman is cheating .. and apparently dodging him on a 300k debt, especially after he makes you 165k.

Since you had the balls to immediately jump in and throw a jab at jungle, I think you should be held to completely clarify the terms of your bet here. You were the one that instigated it to be publicly brought to light, and it sure seems like you would be the side to take advantage of the other side in this situation. Shadily dodging someone on a 300k bet is completely scummy and unacceptable.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:45 PM   #47
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

i should have finished reading the thread b4 posting.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:13 PM   #48
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

Jungle seemed to be close friends with WCG all the way back in 2008-09. I really doubt he would have anything to do with all this. He might have some poor judgement sometimes and he doesn't help himself with his abrasive comments but it doesn't make him Dr. Evil either. IMO It's kinda silly how some people immediately make such a leap into concluding he would help someone cheat WCG.

Back on topic, this is one of the reasons why PTR shouldn't be blocked from sites. In cases like this it really helps to see who played who, when, where and where the money flow looks like. I recently had a similar experience as Doug vs 1 guy on 1 table and PTR would be very helpful.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:14 PM   #49
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Originally Posted by NoSoulToRead View Post
Have all your roommates reformatted their PC's and do you still have the suspect router handy? There could be evidence there.

Also, you can check Skype resolvers to see if you can get any of the IP's he has used, which could potentially be linked to logs found on the router or your roommates PC's.

This

Also, have you not sent your suspicions as to who owned the forbidden536 account to stars? This could go a long way: confirming your suspicions, banning his main account.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:17 PM   #50
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Re: Computer Hacked / Pokerstars Refund/ Joshua Tyler

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Jungle seemed to be close friends with WCG all the way back in 2008-09. I really doubt he would have anything to do with all this. He might have some poor judgement sometimes but it doesn't make him Dr. Evil either so it's kinda silly how some people immediately make such a leap into concluding he would help someone cheat WCG.

Back on topic, this is one of the reasons why PTR shouldn't be blocked from sites. In cases like this it really helps to see who played who, when, where and where the money flow looks like. I recently had a similar experience as Doug vs 1 guy on 1 table and PTR would be very helpful.
dont think theres been one person who has immediately made that leap, of course one should have their suspicions since this isnt Daniels first incident and after all, it was him that hooked josh and doug up so I think it would be naive not to at least suspect Daniel of potentially having malice intent
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