Villian 1 is bad aggro. Passive pre but very aggressive post. For reference I played a hand at 2/5 with him recently where I 3bet his open with AA, He flats oop with QJo, check raises a queen high board, I call and he jams a K Turn. I snap and he rivers the Q.

Villian 2 I haven't played with much but seems straightforward and slightly stationy.

4 handed, I open OTB (1650 stack) to 25 with 77, villian 2 calls(1k)SB villian 1(covers)calls BB.

flop (75) AKx rainbow. Checks to me I bet 55 both villians call.

Turn (240) Q puts flush draw up. Check to me I check behind

River (240) offsuit 7. Villian 2 leads 100, villian one 475... Hero???

I know, we have range advantage etc. but seriously, there are a lot of better flops for us to bet, and I'm far from believing that you're betting your AK and KK+ here with that sizing. If u want to bet here just bet something around 20-25$ just to get them fold something like 89,T8,J8,J9, you get the point. The way you played, turn seems standard, river is tough, since you mentioned he's aggressive, so there is a possibility he could raise some 2pairs like Kx,Qx,KQ maybe or A7/K7 which you block very hard. Looks very much like JT which he has all 16 combos of and I don't think people will be bluffing there often, especially when you're still there to make a decision, but the thing is, can he go for value with worse. I say no.

Very easy fold, BB should have JT always when taking this line.

You described him as straightforward so it’s unlikely he’s making some Ike Haxton GTO river raise with QJ or some other pair+straight blocker hand.

Not to mention JT is still firmly in the first players range. You won’t run into 2p often from either player because AK-Q 3b pre

Looks like no one paid attention to your description of villain 1. He could have KJ/QJ/KT/QT. Villain 2 could be betting any of the combos that hit this board when the turn checks around. BUT, is it worth finding out when you don't close the action and could be 3b or 4b when you call or 3b?

Sizing on the flop is whatever imo. They are both loose passive pre and have very wide ranges. I was hoping to iso villian 1 and barrel good turns. Thoughts on that?

When they both call I'm done with the hand. As for my river decision, I started cutting out a stack of greens and villian 2 telegraphed a fold. I considered value jamming vs this V tbh as I've seen him make this play with weakish hands that he over values. Decided I couldn't lay it down and jam is a little too ambitious, so I made the call and got shown the nuts.

It sucks I saw the results but I think my analysis still holds.

I can see this type overplaying a two pair here, however the issue is the only real combo of 2p is KQ due to preflop play. (Even this hand 4-handed should be 3! a % of the time). The amount of KQ combos he has compared to the many more J10 combos is not enough to warrant a call given the pot odds imo.

Forgot to add that villian 2 folded AJ face up after I over called. Shows the type of passivity pre flop these guys are playing. I think there's a good chance that main villian in the hand is not always 3betting KQ here, probably 3betting AQ tho. He also could have had an Ax with with low card on the flop as well, but I almost guarantee he check raise flop with that.

So yeah KQ is like it for his value range that I beat, should have folded, hero is bad etc etc etc

I flick it in given the v descriptions I can’t find a fold

Barrel good turns with 77 against a post flop maniac? What's a good turn w 77, and why take the lead when you want him betting?

I agree that there aren’t any good turns, but I don’t mind a 1 and done cbet on this texture.

Idk seems questionable vs 2 opponents on this texture, one of which is stationy and the other which might be stationy and overly aggressive. Just doubt you get folds enough especially with no blockers to anything and no real equity or decent barreling opportunities.

I agree our value hands will hit this board hard overall so we should probably be bluffing a fair amount but seems like there should be plenty of better candidates for that.

Flop bet is meh. I don't hate the idea of bluffing here with pocket pairs. But I would choose lower ones. Like 22 33 44..

You want them to fold hands like 78/76/89/66/77/88/99 on this board. So 22, 33, 44 benefit a lot from betting and make for higher ev bluffs.

I don't see how you can fold river against a bad aggro player. He has many 2 pair combos and some bluffs to offset all of his JT.

So let's do a hypothetical...

Flop (75) AK4 rainbow. Checks to me I bet 55, villian 2(SB) fold, villian one calls

Turn (185) 4s puts flush draw up. Villian checks, hero bets 230...

Thoughts?

problem is between both guys, they both have 16 combos of JT, whilst you have 0.
After you bet the flop, YOU strengthened their ranges to have mostly broadway gutters and Ax and some Kx. Versus a range of A/Kx and gutters, you get to the river
where villains donk range is full of TPTK, Two pairs and the nut straight. THEN BB raises large with a range of straights and AQ/KQ and lets give some creative bluffs(which may not exist) like QJ/TT. Maybe half of BBs range is JT.

So even if you fade BB straights, then you have to fade the SB range which is maybe 20% straights here.
Sure this is the top of your range, but your range is constructed to never have the nuts here

This is a river raise, and in a live game. This means you really have to throw out a lot of theoretical analysis and think about the human side of it. In live games people rarely raise rivers as a bluff, and even further, their value range is very strong.

I would expect AK and AQ to 3bet preflop mainly, and I would also expect them to check raise turn fairly often rather than slowplay... But they could slowplay turn, if they got there with it. Same goes for AA KK QQ, but those will 3bet preflop at an even higher percentage.

That really only leaves JT and rare random bluffs, but let's say he does slow play to river with some of those above hands. This *sizing* of 100 to 475 is terrifying for me. When people bink a rare card for the nuts they love to go huge on the sizing. Had he had something like AQ, I would expect to see a raise to 300.

I don't mind a flop CB but I think $30 should get the job done.

As played it's a tough spot but I don't mind folding, AS others already explained he is rarely bluffing and his value range that you beat AQ AK would 3b PF.

Oops, turn checked through... Ignore my comments about turn check raising. I was typing that up in a hurry before going out.