Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
400NL calling with a draw OOP deep 3bet pot. 400NL calling with a draw OOP deep 3bet pot.

10-22-2018 , 06:41 PM
I open HJ, BTN 3bets 400bb deep.

Flop: A56

Btn c-bets 60%pot, we call

Turn: A

Btn c-bets 60% pot.

Assuming he is solid, spr is 10, are you ever
calling with draws here?

he shouldn‘t have many full houses but the
implied odds of our draws go way down on
a paired board as he can have any Axs so we don't know which outs are clean. Our draws are hands like
78s JTdd KQdd. I would have thought
hands like JTdd and below would be folds
because you have less clean outs. I think
we can call with KQdd QJdd 78s but its pretty dicy and we can never check raise river and because of that we can only get max 2/3rds pot bet on the river so we don't have the implied odds. We may need some draws in our range otherwise we get to the river with only made hands but that doesn't matter too much because if a draw flush completes and BTN knows we can't have it our range still isn't capped because we have full houses and we have bluffs as well with our weakest Ax combo's, so its probably fine to fold all draws here.

Let‘s say you check called the turn bet and
the river is the Q. What would be your
check raising range? I think it’s a bit too
narrow to check raise 66, maybe A6 is the
bottom because he never has 55 66 and I
think you will get a lot of folds from Ax but
he can have A5s that will call.
400NL calling with a draw OOP deep 3bet pot. Quote
10-29-2018 , 05:14 PM
I would just fold the turn. He can quads here and your dead or even if he has 3 aces he can still hit a lot of different ways to hit boats even if you hit a flush or straight. Your playing to much with reverse implied odds when the board is paired. I think a vacuum your just losing money here even 400 bbs deep. Say yo udo hit and you have him beat then it comes down to is he going to pay you off with 3 As or a big pair. ANd pretty much its only gonna be 3 aces maybe. And he still might fold them if he is good player that thinks your strong in this situation being this deep. I would fold the turn. I know it sucks i hate folding too. I do the tom dwan roll my eyes and fold.
400NL calling with a draw OOP deep 3bet pot. Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:20 AM
Considering he has a lot of bluffs here, we can't just 100% fold our FDs like KQs/KJs, we have the best hand a good amount..

Can prob just fold QJdd and be ok about it. Just call Axdd and Kxdd
400NL calling with a draw OOP deep 3bet pot. Quote
11-06-2018 , 11:48 AM
He bluff catches the river with some Ax
400NL calling with a draw OOP deep 3bet pot. Quote
11-12-2018 , 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Considering he has a lot of bluffs here, we can't just 100% fold our FDs like KQs/KJs, we have the best hand a good amount..

Can prob just fold QJdd and be ok about it. Just call Axdd and Kxdd
He doesn't have a lot of bluffs here cause we block a lot of his drawing combos he would be bluffing with. So if we have a drawing hand here we dont' really block any Ax he 3b with. Thats the problem when we have a TJs or 89s. Those are the hands we would be bluffing with and we have it so we block him from having those combos. So hes gonna be more value heavy to big Ax hands and big pairs. And another big problem is we are out of position. Where if i was in position there is some merit into calling and then on the river we can re evaluate being last to act. Its just tough to play when your out of position. You are losing over the long run in this situation. I hate folding a draw when we can win a big pot but this is the spot you just have to do it. Sometimes you have to fold. Its a puke fold don't get me wrong but I do it all the time. THe good situations where yoru in position, the boards not paired and we know this opponent is daniel negreanu is sticky. Then against that player of course im calling, we are in position and we are in a much better situation then being out of position on paired board.
400NL calling with a draw OOP deep 3bet pot. Quote
11-18-2018 , 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iburydoscocaroaches
He doesn't have a lot of bluffs here cause we block a lot of his drawing combos he would be bluffing with. So if we have a drawing hand here we dont' really block any Ax he 3b with. Thats the problem when we have a TJs or 89s. Those are the hands we would be bluffing with and we have it so we block him from having those combos. So hes gonna be more value heavy to big Ax hands and big pairs. And another big problem is we are out of position. Where if i was in position there is some merit into calling and then on the river we can re evaluate being last to act. Its just tough to play when your out of position. You are losing over the long run in this situation. I hate folding a draw when we can win a big pot but this is the spot you just have to do it. Sometimes you have to fold. Its a puke fold don't get me wrong but I do it all the time. THe good situations where yoru in position, the boards not paired and we know this opponent is daniel negreanu is sticky. Then against that player of course im calling, we are in position and we are in a much better situation then being out of position on paired board.
I didnt say anything about calling J10s/98s. I said to call KJdd/KQdd. For bluffs he has 87s/98s/other diamond hands, and in theory he should have more than just that (e.g. barreling hands that dont have a diamond and tripling off on a blank runout)

KQdd/KJdd are snap calls ott and arent even close

Last edited by Minatorr; 11-18-2018 at 05:05 AM.
400NL calling with a draw OOP deep 3bet pot. Quote
01-16-2019 , 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Considering he has a lot of bluffs here, we can't just 100% fold our FDs like KQs/KJs, we have the best hand a good amount..

Can prob just fold QJdd and be ok about it. Just call Axdd and Kxdd
ya kind of agree with this
400NL calling with a draw OOP deep 3bet pot. Quote
02-28-2019 , 10:42 PM
V could very well have 55 or 66. Those are possibly in his 3bet-fold-to-4bet range. They should definitely be in your call-3bet range when 400bb deep. No question.
400NL calling with a draw OOP deep 3bet pot. Quote

      
m