Shouldn't have an impact. I'm an "attractive" male and try not to let that blur my judgement. It's what's between one's ears that really counts. And that's a challenge to get right.

Right. He was deservedly software exiled from politards.

Now personally I want him unbanned because I want to see how mad he gets if that Elton Musk guy is successful with Tesla, but if he got banned for breaking site wide rules in SMP of all places then I'm sure whatever he posted was pretty bad.

And I will say this as someone who has had many arguments revolving around feminism - those arguments have made me understand my positions better, to research topics more, and have driven me outside of the forums. These are good things, even though a lot of the discussions were uncomfortable for me. The instances that don't cause that growth are the mouth-breathers who come into a thread - haven't read anything else, and begin making the same old, trite arguments about wage gap, etc. Then, when called out, go full gung-ho misogynistic. Those people are trolls (think sputnik if you have any recollection of the feminism flame wars I'd get into.). Those people who make it crystal clear they are not there to have an actual discussion, but rather want to just troll.

That's kind of a question for Mat, though. If people who are making inflammatory arguments to get a rise out of someone, they're clearly a troll and that shouldn't really be tolerated (again, IMO). It's when that habitually happens that the forums become a place where I don't want to spend my time. So I leave. I guess people all have different thresholds for "trolling" and that's part of where the discord is. Everyone has a line of "too far". Mat, I remember you getting trolled by Ed Furlong, for instance. He passed your line and he was gone. So, you, as the great big spaghetti monster of 2p2 have the ability to draw that line for the forums. Some people, like rafiki, might think it makes the forums less fun, others like LirvA will think that it makes the forums better (or vise versa). I guess your problem is drawing that line where it offends the least amount of people.
Sucks for you.

literally the first google result:

https://www.ajc.com/news/national/ca...XgbTPxHiOLgFM/

This is why no one takes you seriously, because you can't post seriously.

That is what wil said.

Of course, but that doesn't really prove anything. A moderator banned someone for a perceived violation of a site-wide rule. Obviously you should reverse the ban if the moderator's interpretation of the rule was incorrect/inconsistent with 2p2's policy. That's not what's being discussed though. The discussion is whether bans are inappropriate for some site-wide rules, or maybe whether the rule against racist posting is a site-wide rule at all.

I suppose in theory you could have the mods of each individual subforum review each individual ban for rules violations and decide whether or not they want to enforce that ban in their forum, but it seems like a clunky approach.

Denying that gender gaps is a result of sexism IS NOT SEXIST. THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE. You can't discuss the problems with religion or your instantly godless. You can't discuss problems with the work force without being a racist/sexist. You can't fix anything cause you can't discuss anything.

WTF?

That's exactly why we have such a disastrously biased travesty called the Politics forum.

I mean, dude said that he went to a subforum and was immediately called racist. I asked for evidence since I dont remember such a thing happening.

I mean, it clearly never happened. so I think dude should stop lying.

It does have an impact because it affects how I've been treated by the world, which colors my views. I can't possibly speak to another person's experiences with authority because I have no idea what it's like to live as a black person, a trans person, or as a homosexual.

I have no idea how personally damaging it is to be confronted with what I think are benign points of discussion with regards to trans rights, for instance.

Nice posts (this and the last couple)

I think the distinction you're making between a discussion with someone who sincerely but ignorantly makes an objectionable comment and people who mostly just want to troll is pretty important, especially with regard to the comparison between someone expressing discomfort in regards to trans people or with people of other races.

Although from experience the trolling is far more common, hence PU/7 being horrible pretty much of the time it existed.

did you just articulate an actual idea or counter argument?

how are we supposed to have expectations from posters when this is the example from moderators? was that the interview i was referencing? was that the representative i was referring to? do they not claim the anthem is racist? do they want it removed? what does posting your first google result have to do with anything?

seriously, what are you doing? are you hyperventilating outside the bubble? learn to formulate an actual post to someone you disagree with

I'm not sure if you realize that the post you quoted was arguing that people should be *allowed* to express the views in the list.

I know you're just trolling, because that's all you do, but the NAACP is not a single California chapter of the NAACP

It would be like if I said the GOP was pedophiles because a story just came out about GOP Senatorial candidate Roy Moore sexually assaulting a 14 year old.

If you don't think that's misleading, then you're a liar or a troll or both.

there is a rule against objectionable material. objectionable is open to interpretation.

Per Mat, I'm reposting a suggestion I made in the mod forum:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two-Plus-Two is a business. A publishing house business that sells poker books and a business that runs an internet poker site, which includes various forums dedicated to poker in all its various forms and manifestations. That is it’s the primary focus, unless the gods have been deceiving me for all these years.

Two-Plus-Two has recently undergone an overhaul and reorganization to streamline its poker-related forums and other side forums and to jettison superfluous weight that detracted instead of enhanced its main function(s).

Now that this wise step has been taken and implemented there remains one more step, in my estimation, to fully upgrade and bring 2+2 into a thriving sustainable business. Thriving business and good marketing is not predicated on contentious and perpetual acrimony amongst members. In that vein, a portion of that step has already been taken by Mat – the elimination of the P7 forum.

There remains one Grand Step to march 2+2 into the future and freedom: The elimination of SMP, RGT and the Politics Forums. Termination of these three forums, one of know-it-alls, and the others of world savers, both political and religious, is wise, and not just from a business perspective. It would go a long way to bring 2+2 back to what are its core interests in addition to the elimination of the fractiousness and discontents that populate these forums and that bleed into many other areas and forums of 2+2.

Another reason, and this is probably paramount, is that a new age is upon us – an age where a Deryfus Affair occurs scores of times daily there is no way to keep up, you will be perpetually overwhelm. The people are a beast -The rabble unquenchable. Think of all the time and energy saved that could be put to better and more productive use in improving the site overall. It would be immense. Think also of the glowing uplift that the admins of the site would instantly enjoy; that great sigh of relief to be rid of such millstones about their necks. And the notification forum would take a remarkable downturn in reported posts. ATF would be a desert. It would be the dawning of the New Age of Aquarius and back to the poker tables would now be the battle cry. The fundamentals returned to the forefront.

This should be done immediately in my opinion. Discussion here is of course obvious and expected. But when and if a final decision is reached the elimination should be done by fiat. Cerberus needs to die.

Just to show that old-fashion ways just won’t stick in this new instagram and twitter world, I’ll sign off in a Jeffersonian way:

I am your most humble and obedient servant,

Penis

[Important footnote: I wrote this out on my computer this morning after thinking about things last night. I did not see/know about this [Mat's] recent thread in ATF until AFTER I had composed the above. It is an interesting coincidence and strange merging of thought that some lines of thinking seem to parallel.]

I think you need to seriously consider whether this can work anymore.

I know PC has a bad name with some but you need to have some lines. We, for example, shouldn't be in the mess of attacking posters over calling women ***** or calling people ******s or ... because it should be understood that it's against the site rules fullstop. This approach would also make life easier for the mods.

Similarly regarding personal attacks on posters - at the very least they should be contained within the relevant forum with posters participating if they wish.

How's that the case?

They're allowed to be expressed but secretly I think you're a racist and am going to ban you one day?

Empathy is what's needed. And then think about your most sensitive point, and how it feels when people talk in a bad way about it.

Giving transsexuals and all other sexuals (except those violating others) full rights is a natural consequence. Everything else is sexist. Me being a heterosexual male has no impact.

Glad Germany is opening up for genders outside the standard ones ("third sex"). Just makes sense.

It would be a shame. Some of the politics forum material is excellent and afaik unrivalled. But none of that good material is the problematic personal attack/hatred content. All that's really required is to stop the personal attacks.

Not having a go at SMP obviously, I just don't post there much anymore as my interests have moved on. I'd be very sorry to see it go.

"I posted some contemptible stuff. Please just shut it all down because others are the real problem!"

Like, dude, maybe reflect on your bad behavior more so than the political forum.

Yeah, that would seem a lot less self-serving if there weren't a thread started in ATF about Zeno a week ago that he somehow hasn't found the time to address

I miss Giz and bigoldnit.

Yeah what ever happened to bi gold nit?

I just told you i saw a rep from the NAACP come out and declare the anthem racist and they want it removed. fact

this was used as an example to highlight the importance of not allowing people to strictly and ignorantly categorize things they disagree with. especially when you categorize things you disagree with in such strong terms as racist. this NAACP was an excellent example from last night. i just saw an interview where their representative claimed the anthem was racist and it should be removed. full stop. that is totally relevant to how we categorize behavior and moderate it

you are so ideologically blind and possessed you decided to make this some tribal argument and stance about what an entire left wing organization believes, which is a claim i never made and was irrelevant to the point i was making. you then summed up my posts and posting as complete trolling. you are just so broken. having you moderating a political forum is absurd. trolling is a banable offense right? i mean you just declared my posts as trolling and youre a mod. you highlight the problems clearly