Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
WTF do you people want?!?! WTF do you people want?!?!

11-12-2017 , 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
Well, I have no idea what you would say. I don't think that post is incredible really. It succinctly expresses the way most people think about racism, which is that it's entirely about individual beliefs and actions, and that those beliefs and actions have to cross some pretty severe threshold to be "racist", i.e. conscious discrimination and malicious intent.

I think most (white) people sincerely believe that racism (understood as above) is wrong, and sincerely believe themselves to not be racist. Yet a great many of them simultaneously hold on to fairly prejudicial beliefs. More importantly, we tend to explain the continued existence of racial inequality (in employment, education, wealth, etc.) to ourselves through narratives which are also prejudicial, historically inaccurate, and basically inextricable from the long history of racist ideology in American politics. That in turn tends to lead us away from supporting policy changes (e.g. criminal justice reform) which might reduce inequality, and leads us to be skeptical when members of minority groups tell us that they experience discrimination.

I think that this is a problem, but I'm not sure it's always very helpful to try to reduce the complexity of it to a yes/no answer to the question "is so-and-so a racist", although obviously some people are racist in the sense that rafiki uses the term. I think the larger issue is that "racism" (in the sense of institutions, practices, and ideologies which perpetuate inequality between racial groups) is pretty deeply baked into American society.
true story: (i thought you bailed on my request.) so i was going to tell a story about a weekend i had involving two black strippers. one of them accused me of being racist after i declined a lap dance. one of them took a few hundred dollars from me and it was money well spent. according to my penis.

there was going to be a terrific lesson in that story, but as i foresaw, you were able to make the same point in a much better way.
11-12-2017 , 03:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
Well, I have no idea what you would say. I don't think that post is incredible really...

...
Ah OK, I was way too uhhh abstruse and esoteric .

The incredible part was that it's imo incredibly weird to say, "I'd hire any black person, I'd date any asian person," and not, "I'd hire anybody, I'd date anybody." There are too many funny interpretations. I can't say I've ever seen that.

That's all.
11-12-2017 , 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ix
Ah OK, I was way too uhhh abstruse and esoteric .

The incredible part was that it's imo incredibly weird to say, "I'd hire any black person, I'd date any asian person," and not, "I'd hire anybody, I'd date anybody." There are too many funny interpretations. I can't say I've ever seen that.

That's all.
Do you think he would date wil?
11-12-2017 , 03:53 AM
i don't want to end on a snarky note. any jabs i've taken are meant in fun.
11-12-2017 , 04:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
Do you think he would date wil?
11-12-2017 , 04:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
i don't want to end on a snarky note. any jabs i've taken are meant in fun.
Not snarky imo, that was part of the point.
11-12-2017 , 04:10 AM
F**k, Marry, Kill Hire: Rafiki's Race Edition!
11-12-2017 , 04:28 AM
confirmed simulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by augie_
...

also, i'm wondering what kind of anecdote would exonerate me from claims of racism?

maybe you can get in touch with my old frat bros...

...
11-12-2017 , 04:44 AM
I see I'm late, oh well.

The only question that matters is what do you want? It's your forum.

Quote:
"racism" (in the sense of institutions, practices, and ideologies which perpetuate inequality between racial groups) is pretty deeply baked into American society.
^^^ that's the problem
---

I have a friend whose hobbies include going to race tracks and driving fast. He's done it forever, does instruction, is serious. His track car is a 911, and he used to frequent a porsche forum.

He quit the forum because he was tired of hearing people make offhand comments about how he's fundamentally subhuman by his group membership (those posters not knowing my friend's identity). He's got a pretty thick skin but eventually it wore him down. He wasn't political, he didn't debate, he just eventually quit.

What would you tell the owner of the porsche forum? Assume their entire desire is to make a community of porsche enthusiasts and they have no political interests. Still, doing nothing is a decision. It says members can filter the population (by making the community unpleasant) on qualities that have nothing to do with the cars.

This was a couple of kinds of news to me. I can just ignore the idiots but if they were talking about me it would be much worse. Also, segregation isn't about wanting to be with your own kind, it's wanting to be away from the *******s who don't give you basic human respect.

---

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/vie...?f=6&t=1578014

Look how realgm handles the issue:

Quote:
No longer will Politics, or ANY Current Affairs type news or Politics be allowed on the GB. It will cover not just government talk (like Trump vs Hillary, Healthcare, etc), but also Immigration, Race, Gender Roles/Issues, Social Economic Welfares, War, etc.

You see, under our old existing policy, a snide out of nowhere remark like "...just like Trump," is a joke comment perhaps, but will NOT be allowed on the GB anymore under this new policy, and WILL result in Warnings being issued (once we see them).

Under both scenarios (old & new policy), they are both baiting and derailing users. The end result being the VERY real and negative downward spiral of a thread(s).

Anyone involved with political discussion will receive a Warning/Strike AFTER the announcement goes up
...
If you see such things being discussed ANYWHERE on the GB, PLEASE Report it.
They provide a politics containment zone. People posting there want to talk about politics. In the basketball forum though you don't get to talk politics. I think such a policy will reduce segregation.

---

I don't have solutions, just a perspective. Instead of looking at a post in a vacuum, look at it against the purpose of the subforum. The knitting forum doesn't need to hear somebody's theory about how slavery was actually good for black people. They signed up for knitting, not that.

Meet speech with speech makes a lot more sense when the speech is on topic. When it's off topic, not so much.
11-12-2017 , 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
I'm not surprised that you, like many of the like-minded leftie posters in P, don't understand the damage that he is doing to the rest of the site having let his forum get into the state that it has.
The modarchy ideal seems largely right to me and it's part of how impressive 2+2 is that the owners are so tolerant of posters who wouldn't tolerate them. There does seem to be a blind spot though about the interaction between forums and the rest of 2+2.

It's been and continues to be destructive to the 2+2 community which is pretty sad for a place many of us are so fond of.
11-12-2017 , 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D
From your postings itt it appears as if the blind man is probably the one who should have been leading you.
11-12-2017 , 05:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
...


So like, here's an idea: why not head off to BFI or SMP or RGT or the POG politics thread where you can opine about the genetic inferiority of female programmers and won't have to worry about the evil Wookie banning you? We have at least four different Wookie-free subforums where retrograde trolling clowns are free post whatever they want, how about we just have one politics forum for grown-ups who follow politics? It seems like a good compromise imho.

Yeah I'm at maximum crazy pills here.
11-12-2017 , 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
Well, I have no idea what you would say. I don't think that post is incredible really. It succinctly expresses the way most people think about racism, which is that it's entirely about individual beliefs and actions, and that those beliefs and actions have to cross some pretty severe threshold to be "racist", i.e. conscious discrimination and malicious intent.

I think most (white) people sincerely believe that racism (understood as above) is wrong, and sincerely believe themselves to not be racist. Yet a great many of them simultaneously hold on to fairly prejudicial beliefs. More importantly, we tend to explain the continued existence of racial inequality (in employment, education, wealth, etc.) to ourselves through narratives which are also prejudicial, historically inaccurate, and basically inextricable from the long history of racist ideology in American politics. That in turn tends to lead us away from supporting policy changes (e.g. criminal justice reform) which might reduce inequality, and leads us to be skeptical when members of minority groups tell us that they experience discrimination.

I think that this is a problem, but I'm not sure it's always very helpful to try to reduce the complexity of it to a yes/no answer to the question "is so-and-so a racist", although obviously some people are racist in the sense that rafiki uses the term. I think the larger issue is that "racism" (in the sense of institutions, practices, and ideologies which perpetuate inequality between racial groups) is pretty deeply baked into American society.
I think it was just a crappy attempt at a joke. in other posts rajiki mentions he used to a be a comedian and how much he loves edgy humor about the races. that seems along those lines.
11-12-2017 , 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
I think it was just a crappy attempt at a joke. in other posts rajiki mentions he used to a be a comedian and how much he loves edgy humor about the races. that seems along those lines.
What happens if it wasn't a joke? What are you guys going to do?WTF do you people want?!?!
11-12-2017 , 06:21 AM
same thing we always do. pretty much nothing.
11-12-2017 , 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
same thing we always do. pretty much nothing.
I guess I should have expected that answer. WTF do you people want?!?!
11-12-2017 , 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
What happens if it wasn't a joke? What are you guys going to do?WTF do you people want?!?!
Make the 'Er...' face that James Garner and Jack Lemmon make, at the end of My Fellow Americans, when the evil vice-president tells them, 'Ha. You thought I was dumb. But now you see that was all just a fackaid.'
11-12-2017 , 08:06 AM
after much careful thinking i've figured out the problem: the right wing lads are BORING. when is the last time broadwayslushy made anyone laugh? never b/c he's too busy complaining about something

this is what passes for a high quality right wing joke:

Q: why did the millennial cry?
A: because government assistance has made her lazy and it has led to an unfulfilling life

the rest of us are BORED by you. solution: be less BORING
11-12-2017 , 08:20 AM
Their jokes would be what?
11-12-2017 , 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
I'm not surprised that you, like many of the like-minded leftie posters in P,
I have some views on the left and right. Think of me as a free market capitalist with a big safety net and not many regs except environmental and jail for the owners who poison. If that is a lefty ok.

Quote:
don't understand the damage that he is doing to the rest of the site having let his forum get into the state that it has.
You are overstating things. As long as people are just getting exiled the only damage is you dont get to post about politics in a subforum on a poker internet site. Its not stopping you from contributing to the rest of the forum. Or stopping anyone else who has.
11-12-2017 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ix
Can The King's I make jokes about The King's You being a dumbass oblivious racist, or is that Just Not Funny?
15-16 years ago I performed a bit about how the ultimate prize for the nazis was to find a gay black jewish gypsy. It was like their sasquatch or loch ness monster. The bit mostly revolved around the German accent of the gestapo guys talking about the mythical creature, so it doesn't translate super well into writing. But all these years later, I suddenly find myself regretting that I hadn't said "gay black jewish gypsy with down syndrome". Has a nice ring to it.

I also had to google "racist" to see if I am one. Does it count if I feel one race is superior to all the others, but it's not my own race? Because I'm convinced the Chinese are probably superior, but I'm never getting into that club.

Unless....

Can I self identify as being Chinese?
11-12-2017 , 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
First, I want to reiterate my pressing issue in different words. There seems to be a greater and greater call for people to be banned from the entire site over perceived bigotry.

I don't care when people want to confront someone over perceived bigotry. I don't care that the politics forum so tightly moderates for bigotry either. So this isn't about how that forum is run.

I use toothsayer as an example. The reason for his actual ban hasn't been explained yet to me. But for the purposes of this thread, let's just say he was banned for making multiple racist posts.












So, 1 and 2. Using the toothsayer example.
How does that ban affect business?
Was it just the right thing to regardless?
Not trying to shut people up today.







So, again. It's the calls to ban people outside of politcs for their politics I want to hear about. And maybe, hopefully, i'm wrong about it being such a big issue.

If everyone pretty much agrees that the individual forums can be treated independently, then there won't be many requests to ban people from the site, rather requests for exiles from specific forums. That's an easy thing to grant if a moderator asks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
This thread has been fine. It's the threads asking me to demod and/or ban people that give me grief.



Mat, you are so utterly and completely INCOMPETENT! "Oh, hold on now, we can't go banning or demodding neo nazi sympathizing racists that advocate for whites only lunch counters. That's just not going to happen."

"... oh but let's just go ahead and ban ****ing victims of domestic assault, like Kristy."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
I was just alerted to this. If I'm not mistaken, there's some accusations of very serious, real life problems that need to be dealt with in real life. I can't imagine that any action we take as moderators can be very meaningful.

Without knowing more details, I would ban both of these users and encourage them to go to the proper authorities where they live.

I won't be following this thread, so if there's something more I should know, please pm me.

Ban GiantWalleye, fine, that's a good idea. But don't ban his ****ing wife, who is the victim of his domestic abuse. She has a large support base of friends here, and you want to flat out ****ing ban her while white supremacists run rampant on the forums? WTF are you thinking man? Utter ****ing incompetence.

You couldn't manage your way out of a wet paper bag.

I think you should go back to trying to be an actor, because at least you'd have a piece of paper telling you exactly what to do and say, but you'd still **** it up.

"No Mat, it's pronounced 'rooooooooode, not ro-aaaaaaaaad'."

How you managed to beat millions others of Davids sperm in the race to life, I have no ****ing idea, but I can tell you one thing: part of the reason for the decline of this site can be found by looking into one of these magical devices.

Spoiler:





Utter. ****ing. Incompetence. Someone ban this account too ffs, holy ****.

Last edited by MikeTheHusband; 11-12-2017 at 09:05 AM. Reason: This never would have happend if Ryan Beal were the administrator.
11-12-2017 , 09:14 AM
11-12-2017 , 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafiki
15-16 years ago I performed a bit about how the ultimate prize for the nazis was to find a gay black jewish gypsy. It was like their sasquatch or loch ness monster. The bit mostly revolved around the German accent of the gestapo guys talking about the mythical creature, so it doesn't translate super well into writing. But all these years later, I suddenly find myself regretting that I hadn't said "gay black jewish gypsy with down syndrome". Has a nice ring to it.

I also had to google "racist" to see if I am one. Does it count if I feel one race is superior to all the others, but it's not my own race? Because I'm convinced the Chinese are probably superior, but I'm never getting into that club.

Unless....

Can I self identify as being Chinese?

I'm finding it hard to believe you ever worked as a comedian. That just sounds dumb.
11-12-2017 , 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D
I'm finding it hard to believe you ever worked as a comedian. That just sounds dumb.
It's interesting to watch a room divided from that side of the lights. I've seen pros do religious or racial bits that completely split a room in two.

One of the funniest bits I've ever seen to this day was a guy (his name escapes me) who did an impression of the previous old pope. The only way I could describe it to you is that he acted like a mumbling disabled person the whole time, and showed that this was the leader of the catholic church. To this day I've never seen a room split like that. The side I was sitting on was laughing uncontrollably. Just banging on tables, grown men were falling off their chairs roaring with laughter. The other side of the room was total silence and angry death stares. And it was so stark that the comic actually brought it up.

I've never stopped to wonder why some people get offended by jokes that others laugh at, although now I find the idea interesting. I've just decided that the ones who get offended don't get to dictate what's funny to the other side of the room. Life's too short to miss out on laughing that hard.

      
m