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Old 05-29-2010, 10:40 PM   #1
anononon
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Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

HoopsEdge is the WNBA front for RightAngleSports (RAS). Their official support thread can be found here:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/40...ervice-782839/

Here are some of the allegations against RAS posted by respected posters like TomCowley:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCowley
Made a deal with an ex-bank robber who lived in vegas. Bank robber got picks early, was to bet them just before release at places few have accounts so that the numbers wouldn't be hit too much. RAS was to get, I believe, an x/game freeroll. Using 100/game (it was probably 10-100x that), if his picks went 30-20, for +3000, -2200, RAS would get 800 at the end of the season. If he went 20-30, he owed nothing.

It was obvious to anybody with an odds service that his plays were being leaked in advance (and at least one person who posts here had the service and was aware of this), which was posted on various boards and that RAS of course denied at the time. The picks won, and then the bank robber stiffed RAS and a bunch of other people. Heh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCowley
My issue- besides general disagreement with 2p2 policy of allowing such a thread, because it requires them to make judgments in areas where they have zero knowledge- is that what you're doing here is 100% pulling a Feist/Feiner. You have zero documented ability to beat WNBA since the market got tougher with the 2009 season (your own words about the market getting tougher). Zero. None. And yet you're still marketing as though the 2008 results are relevant and predictive going forward, in addition to referencing undocumented 2007 results.

You're paying for advertising space here and your advertising for the WNBA service is, to say the least, intellectually dishonest. Why do I want you to lose? Simple- you knew you were cheating your customers when you gave out picks early, and you're lying to the world now with your WNBA marketing. Sure, your marketing isn't as disingenuous as some other touts, and you are more likely to win going forward than Feist and Feiner, but that's not an excuse for what you're doing.
Their defense:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RightAngle
Calling what happened in 2008 CBB "cheating our customers" is unfair. Our intention was to bet extra on our own plays without affecting the service. That turned out to be impossible with the people we were dealing with and we cut ties after determining this. As regrettable as this was, the service did net over 30 units in those 6 weeks, an additional 10 units that basketball season, 22 units in 8 weeks of 2009 CFB for $499, and 61 units in 2009-10 CBB for $749. If you want to dwell on what happened in 2008, that is fine. Others may choose to focus on the tremendous value the service has provided in recent years. Personally, I think there are a far worse things a service can do than try to bet more on their plays because of how successful they are.
atrainpsu points out the obvious:

Quote:
Originally Posted by atrainpsu
Here you go with the results oriented defense again..."We didn't cheat our customers cuz they won money, blah blah blah"
shipitkthx was a customer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shipitkthx
I was one of your customers in 2008. After paying you money for access to your picks, do you have any idea how infuriating it was to watch lines jump 1-2 points BEFORE release??? It doesn't matter if your picks still beat the post-cheat line, I paid for the release number, I was as fast as you could possibly be at hitting your lines. The defense of "well you still won" doesn't work, I paid for max EV, not "after we're done with it" EV.
A simple cliffs by Thremp:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thremp
You gave your plays to someone else for a fee. (Cut of net win) You robbed EV from your customers of your tout service for plays you didn't actually play.
I won't quote this post, but TomCowley's post here sums it up very well.

So, my questions:

1) Was 2+2 aware of this past history with RAS?
2) If so, why do they believe it to be immaterial?
3) If not, what is the official statement of 2p2 going forward about RAS?

Thank you.
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:46 PM   #2
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Of course we weren't aware of their history.

I'll just quote a couple of RAS' responses:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RightAngle View Post
What you are speaking of happened for about 6 weeks at the start of the 2008 CBB season. Mistakes were made, lessons were learned, and this has not happened again since.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightAngle View Post
Fair enough. Point taken. I definitely regret what happened. I just wanted the situation to be portrayed with a bit more fairness and accuracy, which being directly involved in it, I felt I was in a position to do.

In any event, the important thing is that we have maintained the integrity of all released CBB/CFB/WNBA plays ever since.
So, here's my question for you. Assume for a minute that this only happened for that one period of time, has never happened since, and they promise to never let it happen again. Should they not be allowed as an advertiser? Serious question.

Also, I beleve RAS has claimed that they offered refunds to any customers affected, and no one took them up on this. I haven't seen anyone claim to the contrary.
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:51 PM   #3
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
So, here's my question for you. Assume for a minute that this only happened for that one period of time, has never happened since, and they promise to never let it happen again. Should they not be allowed as an advertiser? Serious question.
This is not the issue for me (though it is rather important when you are selling your word). The fact that RAS says this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RightAngle
As regrettable as this was, the service did net over 30 units in those 6 weeks, an additional 10 units that basketball season, 22 units in 8 weeks of 2009 CFB for $499, and 61 units in 2009-10 CBB for $749.
Speaks volumes. No intelligent person on this board can't see right through that results-oriented bull****. It is a ridiculous defense that equates to:

"We regret cheating our customers. But hey, they made money too! So it's OK."
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:54 PM   #4
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

I understand you have issues with their response to this. Are you suggesting they should be removed as an advertiser because of this response?
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:55 PM   #5
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

First, they didn't "offer refunds". They granted refunds to people who specifically asked. The vast majority of subscribers probably have no idea to this day that they could have gotten a refund.

Second, they state that they remain free to bet in any way at any time (including front-running), and furthermore, that they ARE also betting their picks as we speak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS
The service could not have nearly as talented people working for it and therefore could not provide nearly the same play quality, volume, or +EV, if the people involved did not have the freedom to place wagers. It would not be feasible any other way.
It's not an isolated incident (the bad PR of getting caught and called out on it was the isolated incident). It's a self-admitted fundamental part of their business model.

Last edited by TomCowley; 05-29-2010 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:57 PM   #6
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

I am suggesting that 2p2 justify why they allow advertisers who cheat their customers and use the defense of "We cheated them but they made money" to obscure the facts.

The plain truth is that RAS cheated their customers in a field where your word is all you have as a professional service. If this is fine with 2p2, then I want to hear 2p2's management say it. That's all.

Last edited by anononon; 05-29-2010 at 10:57 PM. Reason: i hate getting grunched by tomcowley, he is too fast/smart
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:13 PM   #7
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCowley View Post
First, they didn't "offer refunds". They granted refunds to people who specifically asked. The vast majority of subscribers probably have no idea to this day that they could have gotten a refund.
I'll have to look back through the thread; perhaps you're correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCowley View Post
Second, they state that they remain free to bet in any way at any time (including front-running), and furthermore, that they ARE also betting their picks as we speak.
I'd like to understand this issue better. Is this common/normal operating procedure for handicapping services? Why is it such a problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
I am suggesting that 2p2 justify why they allow advertisers who cheat their customers and use the defense of "We cheated them but they made money" to obscure the facts.

The plain truth is that RAS cheated their customers in a field where your word is all you have as a professional service. If this is fine with 2p2, then I want to hear 2p2's management say it. That's all.
I don't know if cheating is an accurate description of what happened, but I don't want to turn this into the same semantics argument you've had with RAS.

Instead, let's take advertisers cheating customers in general. Do you feel that if 2+2 takes on an advertiser that is later found to have cheated customers in the past, they should automatically be removed as an advertiser?

Last edited by Bobo Fett; 05-30-2010 at 02:22 AM. Reason: Just notice your/you're. Ugh.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:15 PM   #8
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

My first reaction is that it's probably not something they chose to bring to Bobo's attention when they signed up.

But then again, once you find out an advertising a place has a shady history it's prob worth re-evaluating. Within reason, I don't mean knocking off every advertiser with some small thing (I don't know enough about this deal or understand it fully). But standards for ads probably aren't necessarily standards for things 2+2 might recommend. Strictly my opinion.

Last edited by Bizarro Gonso; 05-29-2010 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:15 PM   #9
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcarroll33 View Post
Yeah, just figured all this out. Money talks obv
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
Cliffs notes for the thread. ^
Sigh.

Now-deleted posts from the support thread.

Is it really not possible to have a conversation about the issue without this kind of crap?
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:20 PM   #10
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Instead, let's take advertisers cheating customers in general. Do you feel that if 2+2 takes on an advertiser that is later found to have cheated customers in the past, they should automatically be removed as an advertiser?
This has little or nothing to do with my points that I'm bringing up. Maybe others care about this, but I refer you to TomCowley's posts and the ones I've already brought up. If you want to discuss general advertisers cheating behaviors in the past, that can go into another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizarro Gonso View Post
I'm guessing it's probably not something they chose to bring to Bobo's attention when they signed up
Who knows? 2p2 management may have decided that it was fine.

ETA: And if they hadn't, what are the proper due diligence methods that 2p2 takes when scoping out prospective advertisers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Sigh.

Now-deleted posts from the support thread.

Is it really not possible to have a conversation about the issue without this kind of crap?
Huh? What are you talking about? gmcarroll was pointing out that this thread could not have been policed in the way he wanted by Performify because it was a paid authorized support thread. I also pointed out the same thing.

Is there something factually incorrect about that? 2p2 accepted money so RAS could advertise. gmcarroll notified Perf thinking it was a random tout thread. He was confused on why it was not deleted. I told him it was because RAS paid 2p2 for the privilege.

True or false?
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:26 PM   #11
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
This has little or nothing to do with my points that I'm bringing up. Maybe others care about this, but I refer you to TomCowley's posts and the ones I've already brought up. If you want to discuss general advertisers cheating behaviors in the past, that can go into another thread.
You're asking why 2+2 allowed them to advertise. I'm asking you if you think they should be removed based on what I believe are the facts at hand. Seems pretty relevant to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
Who knows? 2p2 management may have decided that it was fine.
But now you know we didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
ETA: And if they hadn't, what are the proper due diligence methods that 2p2 takes when scoping out prospective advertisers?
Certainly nothing that would discover issues like that, and I doubt many forums/web sites are any different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
Huh? What are you talking about? gmcarroll was pointing out that this thread could not have been policed in the way he wanted by Performify because it was a paid authorized support thread. I also pointed out the same thing.

Is there something factually incorrect about that? 2p2 accepted money so RAS could advertise. gmcarroll notified Perf thinking it was a random tout thread. He was confused on why it was not deleted. I told him it was because RAS paid 2p2 for the privilege.

True or false?
It's the cynical tone I was talking about. Am I mistaken? I have my doubts, but if I was, I apologize.

And yes, that's true.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:27 PM   #12
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizarro Gonso View Post
But standards for ads probably aren't necessarily standards for things 2+2 might recommend. Strictly my opinion.
I think this is a fair point and should be disclosed if it is the case. I can understand this viewpoint.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:30 PM   #13
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizarro Gonso View Post
But then again, once you find out an advertising a place has a shady history it's prob worth re-evaluating. Within reason, I don't mean knocking off every advertiser with some small thing (I don't know enough about this deal or understand it fully). But standards for ads probably aren't necessarily standards for things 2+2 might recommend. Strictly my opinion.
Excellent points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
I think this is a fair point and should be disclosed if it is the case. I can understand this viewpoint.
I would never expect otherwise from any Internet site, newspaper, television network, etc, etc.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:30 PM   #14
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
You're asking why 2+2 allowed them to advertise. I'm asking you if you think they should be removed based on what I believe are the facts at hand. Seems pretty relevant to me.
I'm not saying that 2p2 management should remove them for cheating in the past. I am saying that 2p2 management should justify why they allow them to advertise given their defense of why they cheated their customers. It makes no sense and has no integrity; any semi-intelligent gambler can see this.

Like I said, many people may have problems with them cheating people in the past. I'm one of them. But that's not the main driver as to why I think they should be removed as an advertiser, and I don't think it to be relevant to my arguments.

Quote:
But now you know we didn't.
This is another huge problem. Did you consult with any well-known sports bettor(s) before accepting RAS? Due diligence should have included this if 2p2 management did not understand much in the online sports betting world.

Quote:
Certainly nothing that would discover issues like that, and I doubt many forums/web sites are any different.
I would hope that 2p2 is held to a higher standard than P5 or Neverwin.

Quote:
It's the cynical tone I was talking about. Am I mistaken? I have my doubts, but if I was, I apologize.

And yes, that's true.
I can't speak for gmcarroll, but I was only talking about why Performify was handcuffed.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:50 PM   #15
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
I'm not saying that 2p2 management should remove them for cheating in the past. I am saying that 2p2 management should justify why they allow them to advertise given their defense of why they cheated their customers. It makes no sense and has no integrity; any semi-intelligent gambler can see this.

Like I said, many people may have problems with them cheating people in the past. I'm one of them. But that's not the main driver as to why I think they should be removed as an advertiser, and I don't think it to be relevant to my arguments.
Is there any chance this argument is about semantics? PAS has said they regret what happened and that they made mistakes, and also that it wouldn't happen again. I don't see how offering justifications really changes any of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
This is another huge problem. Did you consult with any well-known sports bettor(s) before accepting RAS? Due diligence should have included this if 2p2 management did not understand much in the online sports betting world.
No. Nor do we consult experts in any other field when accepting their advertisements. For example, we run ad networks on our community networks; naturally, there's no realistic hope of any such consultation for every advertisement we run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
I would hope that 2p2 is held to a higher standard than P5 or Neverwin.
Fair point. When it comes to poker, this may be an expectation of many people. And I think, for example, 2+2's stance on Cereus ads is indicative that it's a valid expectation. At the same time, I could probably find a few shady things that many poker sites have engaged in. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that 2+2 is going to only have 100% squeaky clean companies advertising.

As for sports handicappers, I don't know if most posters would hold 2+2 to a higher standard here. And I'm also far from convinced that RAS would violate such standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
I can't speak for gmcarroll, but I was only talking about why Performify was handcuffed.
Fair enough, my apologies.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:05 AM   #16
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Is there any chance this argument is about semantics? PAS has said they regret what happened and that they made mistakes, and also that it wouldn't happen again.
Except in the same breath, they say that it is still happening, and will continue to happen, and is an integral part of their business model. They're only sorry that the people they were dealing with at the time made it so obvious to the world- they're not sorry at all about front-running. They're only sorry they got caught front-running by being so obvious. Read the thread in full please.

Quote:
Why is it such a problem?
Because books don't take unlimited action, and when a person or person has bet enough, the line moves. Anybody in the future who wants the same side will have to bet into a worse number. And books take very limited action on WNBA (and college basketball) compared to what they'll take on NFL. There's a finite, quite small, amount of the best number to go around. When RAS front-runs it, their clients can't bet it anymore (or bet it for as much, collectively). And forcing customers to take just half a point worse on a basketball spread is about a -4% hit to their expected ROI, which is obviously nontrivial.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:21 AM   #17
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
I'd like to understand this issue better. Is this common/normal operating procedure for handicapping services? Why is it such a problem?
I have no particular knowledge of the RAS situation specifically, but a fair amount of the general issue:

If a tout is playing his picks before giving them out, the line will tend to move by the time they come out in a way that is unfavorable to the bettor who paid for the service. You could argue that this is sort of OK if the tout reasonably believes his picks will still be +EV even after those line movements, but the counterargument is that those who have paid for the service reasonably expect that the service will not be working against them, which is literally what the tout's own bets will be doing to the extent (which is significant in the WNBA) that the bets move the line. Moreover, given the edges that are available in most sports, it's pretty likely that any line movement will obviate any edge the tout might have.

If a tout is free to play the sold picks after giving them out, he will probably be tempted to, at least occasionally (and, as TC points out, all the time once he's decided to burn his business), give out picks that are coin flips or even backwards relative to his own views. The customers playing his picks will move the line; he can then take advantage of the improved (from his perspective) lines by going the opposite way from what he advised.

These techniques will be much more a problem in a market like WNBA than NBA or NFL, because the lines will respond to much smaller action.

From what i just read (not a lot, and I'm assuming TC summed it up fairly), RAS has not promised not to do these things. Assuming this is correct there is more here than just a business that cheated customers in the past; there's one that has cheated customers in the past, promised it won't cheat in that particular way again, but left open other possible ways to cheat them. (All of which is a little odd when you consider that they might as well just go ahead and say they won't do it, whether they're going to or not.)

Last edited by atakdog; 05-30-2010 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:21 AM   #18
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Re: Support Thread for HoopsEdge WNBA Service

I had some constructive thoughts all written out, ready to click post. Then it suddenly occurred to me, "Why the hell am I helping this person, a deluded charlatan at best?"

Also I'm still pissed about my prior post being deleted. When did 4 become TheRx?
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:36 AM   #19
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Re: Support Thread for HoopsEdge WNBA Service

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Originally Posted by ImStillBen View Post
I had some constructive thoughts all written out, ready to click post. Then it suddenly occurred to me, "Why the hell am I helping this person, a deluded charlatan at best?"

Also I'm still pissed about my prior post being deleted. When did 4 become TheRx?
Moved this one from the SB thread, as it really doesn't belong there.

And is this post's deletion really worth asking about not just once, but twice?

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Originally Posted by ImStillBen
Did they ever find Mr. Engstrom's body?
I didn't delete it, but I don't see what it has to do with a support thread for PAS.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:39 AM   #20
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Is there any chance this argument is about semantics? PAS has said they regret what happened and that they made mistakes, and also that it wouldn't happen again. I don't see how offering justifications really changes any of that.
TC responded to this better than I ever could, so I'll let him do the talking.

Quote:
No. Nor do we consult experts in any other field when accepting their advertisements. For example, we run ad networks on our community networks; naturally, there's no realistic hope of any such consultation for every advertisement we run.
Ad networks != Authorized Support Threads. The one is very easily seen as simple banner ads, the other shows that 2p2 almost sanctions it by allowing direct advertising using the forum.

Quote:
And I think, for example, 2+2's stance on Cereus ads is indicative that it's a valid expectation.
Yes, I agree.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:41 AM   #21
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Perhaps I haven't been completely clear. I have read the whole thread, and I understand they PAS haa said that front-running is something they still do. The issue that they have expressed regret for, etc, was in 2008:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCowley View Post
Made a deal with an ex-bank robber who lived in vegas. Bank robber got picks early, was to bet them just before release at places few have accounts so that the numbers wouldn't be hit too much. RAS was to get, I believe, an x/game freeroll. Using 100/game (it was probably 10-100x that), if his picks went 30-20, for +3000, -2200, RAS would get 800 at the end of the season. If he went 20-30, he owed nothing.

It was obvious to anybody with an odds service that his plays were being leaked in advance (and at least one person who posts here had the service and was aware of this), which was posted on various boards and that RAS of course denied at the time. The picks won, and then the bank robber stiffed RAS and a bunch of other people. Heh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightAngle View Post
Basically, at the start of the 2008-09 CBB season, we gave our plays to people who were supposed to help us get down "quietly and discreetly" before they were released publically. Ended up not being very quiet or discreet among other things, and the relationship ended about 6 weeks into the season. As I wrote previously, mistakes were made and lessons were learned.
As for the front-running, thanks for the explanation, atakdog. That's more or less what I thought, but I wanted to get a more in-depth explanation.

Can anyone tell me if front-running a common phenomenon among sports handicappers?
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:48 AM   #22
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

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Ad networks != Authorized Support Threads.
Of course not. And I'll admit it's a rather extreme example I came up with quickly. But I'm sure I there are plenty of other non-poker ads we've run/are running where the expectation wouldn't be that industry experts would've been consulted. Just like I don't think people are usually consulted on poker site ads; it's just that it's a topic that 2+2 management would be more familiar with, and would be able to screen out the very worst without further consultation.

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The one is very easily seen as simple banner ads, the other shows that 2p2 almost sanctions it by allowing direct advertising using the forum.
This is interesting, and something I've thought about quite a bit. Is there a big perception out there that support threads are a "sanctioning" of sorts?

What's interesting about it is that if we ran banner ads without the thread, it's likely the issue never comes up, and posters are none the wiser.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:52 AM   #23
Bizarro Gonso
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

I don't think 2+2 can have a set "policy" with these things, you almost have to go case-by-case.

Obviously reject known scammer types, I mean DutchBoydPoker is never going to get adspace. But the rest... again they're advertisement, not Consumer Reports endorsements. If folks have a beef with a particular advertiser--which invariably they're going to with pretty much any gambling-related ads for sure--they can say so like in this thread. In grevious cases maybe a given contract won't be renewed or possibly terminated.

But you can only expect so much. It's one thing to turn away known crooks wanting to advertise, but it's another to full-on investigate them (as if you're paying them for something). I know radio ads aren't much different and I imagine other media are pretty similar. There are some standards to keep but it needs to be reasonable. This is a gambling site after all, some of the advertisers 2+2 would like to have are probably not options but poker- and gambling-related advertisers are and there's probably a pretty high rate of problems among them.

Last edited by Bizarro Gonso; 05-30-2010 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:52 AM   #24
TomCowley
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
This is interesting, and something I've thought about quite a bit. Is there a big perception out there that support threads are a "sanctioning" of sorts?
In this case, it's 110% obvious that it's sanctioning the product. Starting a thread advertising picks for sale is an instant deletion and ban (as it should be). Then you let RAS come in and advertise picks for sale where literally nobody else can, so, uh, yeah, you're sanctioning the product here when you let them do that.
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Old 05-30-2010, 01:00 AM   #25
gregorio
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Re: Why did 2p2 management allow HoopsEdge/RAS to become an authorized advertiser?

To me, it's 110% obvious that 2p2 never sanctions any products or services on the forum other than 2p2 books. People get to plug their stuff here if they pay a fee. Perhaps 2p2 needs to do a better job letter people know that anyone who gets to promote themselves here only gets to b/c they paid--there's been confusion regarding Sponsored Coaches recently as well--but to me it's always been clear that 2p2 endorses nothing here but their books.
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