Welcome to the world, try the Veal.

Some people get so excited about the chance to insult female pokre players they like to do it in multiple threads. I guess time to just start banning.

Do you mean the BBV thread about why there are not so much female poker players? That one was deleted right? I hardly payed any attention to that thread but I noticed it suddenly was away and it added to my annoyance with the "female" censorship (not just here so don't take it personally).

You know why that mod deleted that BBV thread?

So do you ban people who insult male poker players as well? I guess you can ban the entire forum then? Or do you only ban people who insult female players? This is exactly my point of annoyance.

I believe the mod who deleted the BBV thread will post in here eventually.
Yes. From the sticky:


1. Keep Your Posts Respectful

• Racist/sexists/homophobic etc. posts are not acceptable. If you are unsure if something is racist or sexist or homophobic, err on the safe side.
• Do not make posts that insult, attack or threaten someone. Disagreeing with another poster is fine; threatening them, telling them to *****, STFU, insulting them, calling them names and other ad hominem attacks is not.
• Avoid flaming people and arguing back-and-forth, repeating the same points over and over. Save yourself (and us) the headache and just block the poster and your problems will disappear.
• Do not troll.

Use some common sense and treat people with respect and you will have no problems. Posts along the lines of “X is a ****ing ******/douchebag/gay/bitch etc.” will be deleted and result in warnings/infractions/bans. These rules also apply to posting about well-known players. Criticize them if you want, but do it with some respect.


Recently threads about Alan Meltzer and Scott Montgomeryhave been locked because of too many idiotic insults. Lots of threads and posts about Negreanu, Durrrr, Gavin Smith, Gobbo, Dario, Chainsaw, Kevmath, Luke Schwartz etc get locked/deleted.

Usually if I delete a post that insults a woman, I get PM'd a complaint that "how come you delete a post like that because it's about a woman but if someone said that about a man it's fine."

If I delete a post that insults a man, I get PM'd a complaint "how come you delete a post like that because it's about a man but it's fine for people to make misogynistic posts."

If I delete a racist post, I get PM'd a complaint "how come you delete a post like that because it's racist but you let people post anti-semitic stuff."

If I delete an anti-semitic post, I get PM'd a complaint "how come you delete a post like that because it's amti-semitic but you let people post racist stuff."

If I delete a post that insults the French, I get PM'd a complaint "how come you delete a post like that because it's anti-French but you let people post anti-American stuff all the time."

If I delete a post that insults Americans, I get PM'd a complaint "how come you delete a post like that because it's anti-American but you let people post anti-Euro stuff all the time."

So yes I delete, infract, lock, ban for all the various types of idiots ways people can come up with to insult people in NVG. And people always whine about how unfair it is and how their free speech is being violated.

lol. This is exactly what I mean. It's the formula conplaint:

"Why can't I insult X but people get to insult Y all they want?" where X and Y are interchangable.

Delete, infract, lock and ban happy mod ITT!

( I meant me, not gregorio, who is extremely fair imo )

Whenever some form of "censorship" is used there will always be complaints. Unfortunately, until the kids learn to argue like adults, this "censorship" will have to go on or the place becomes a FU.
I've not got loads of posts so flame away, but this place is a lot easier to lurk because the mods clear up, if some threads get locked / deleted I can live with that, plenty of other outlets for me to express my freedom of speech.

look, buster. until you have a few thousand posts on this forum your opinions are as worthless as flea poop. why don't you crawl out of your mother's basement and get a job.

just make sure you get a job which allows you to post on twoplustwo.com or you'll never be taken seriously by anyone. especially women.

Observations from a newbie -- offensive comments abound, true, but there are also many sarcastic, smart ass, funny comments like this that will make me laugh out loud.

Back to the criticism issue - if you are a woman who plays poker, and you don't listen to _constructive criticism_ you are an idiot. To learn to play poker well is hard, nnnkayyyy? I was taught by a patient guy, who continues to be patient when I ask him dumb questions, or have him look at hands I have played. After a year, I feel like I am just beginning to understand the game, and know I have a long, long way to go before I would consider myself a fair player.

Also, gotta say, although my live experience is limited, I have found women get treated with respect. The first times I played live and I broke poker etiquette, I was given a chance to understand the mistake and learn from it. Not so much for the guys, who were ridiculed, especially if they were in the 20 something range. There have been times when I have benifited from whispered advice from a guy like "don't agree, he's trying to take advantage of you" when I had to ask what the other player meant when he asked me if I wanted to "chop the pot."

Women are programmed to be NICE in our society, and the skills you need in poker aren't always intuitive to women. I think we are more genetically gifted in cooperative games, but that's the challenge and fun of poker, to learn new skills, and use old ones (like being able to "read" people) in new ways.

I have to say, there's a reason that NVG has like 43 mods, and to me it should be to clean up a thread like that, with meaningful bans*, and allow it to exist.

If that thread can't exist in that forum- I think either the forum should be cleaned up- or closed down, but it seems very unfortunate that it has to be closed just because idiots can't have nice things.

*- Mat, Ryan- as long as your mods can only ban people for like 3 days, they won't be able to meaningfully enforce anything. Longer bans, permabans, give the mods the tools they need.

new meme ahoyyyyy....

Dids, while there may be 43 mods listed, there are only 3-4 active mods.

They aren't restricted in this way. Perhaps you're misremembering what I said? I can post it here if anyone is curious. And I fully support permabanning people who ruin threads. I hope that I never indicated otherwise.

alan meltzer seems to have very tiny hands

Then when you do start locking/infracting/banning, you get all the people saying you're just an ego driven, power tripping mod.

Kinda comical Can't please everyone amirite?

Why would I be a mod if I weren't an ego driven, power-tripper? It's not like I do it for the benefits package.

I do it for the low-slung holster and the chicks. chicks love a mod.

I do it for the secret mod porn forum.

On a serious note, Dids, the short version of the rule is "ban for 1-3 days, or just go ahead and perm ban if you think it warrants it."

And yet somehow half of BBV and NVG still lives.

I like when Howard posts in NVG

I mean, unless I'm misunderstanding it, it's pretty simple, right? Of the following:

1. I believe there aren't very many successful women poker players because women aren't as naturally competitive and poker tends to have a boy's club-type environment, which may make women feel uncomfortable. Perhaps women are also somewhat less likely to engage in risk-taking activities, especially as a profession.

2. Maria Ho is a goat sheep wannabe who can't tell a set from a salad bar -- not like she'd know what to do with either one!

1 expresses some controversial opinions about gender in a respectful way, and attempts to do so using neutral language. 2 has zero content and doesn't address any serious issues about gender and poker. All the threads I read about women in poker are 75% 2, and very very little of 1.

On a serious note about the women in poker thing. I think it comes down to self-confidence. Most boys seem to think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and this is pretty damn important in poker, where downswings and variance can make you question your ability and deter you from trying. For whatever reason, be it societal or maybe behavioral genetic, girls seem to think very poorly of themselves. I know that my girlfriend, who is an excellent poker player, suffers from this pretty hard.

Anyway,

Signing off from pointless thread in forum no one reads,

Sonny

Sonny Weblin for mod?

That's pretty much it in a nutshell, Sonny. Well said.

But I take back the Sonny for mod because you sign your post, as a reformed ex-post signer, I simply can't condone that. :P

post signing is inexcusable iyam

-jake

My apologies. I had the impression that there were some limits placed on what the mods could do. I guess it's just IP checks that they can't all do, which I understand, but disagree with.

In that case I change my point.

If you want a culture change in NVG- you'll have to go pretty zero tolerance. Make sure the rules are clear, and then nuke away.

I agree with you on the tolerance. Bigotry in all forms is increasingly present and should not be tolerated.