So do the site owners need to get involved or how do we proceed to get this approved? As users of the site, who do we need to convince to enact this change? What is the process?

Where's the fire? This thread has existed for less than 2 days. Chill.

:

This.

You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas.
-Folklore carpetbagger bear wrestler from TN

I'm trying to understand the process that is involved in getting something like this changed.

It seems the reason why TX rooms aren't permitted to have their own threads in the Venues & Communities section of the forum is because a single mod was concerned about how it would affect his job outside of this site.

So if that is correct and we've identified the cause, what's the next step?

I don't believe that has been established.

It's not true exactly, but there is a grain of truth to it.

As I mentioned, it was the rule even before I was a mod of CCP, so there are/were other reasons too. At various times, other 2+2 admins were also against it I believe, or at least leaned against it.

But it's a reason for me, maybe even a primary reason. I don't have a stake in whether there is any risk to 2+2, because I don't own 2+2, but it's something they should consider too, though if I had to guess I would say they probably don't care. Lattimer may also have his own reasons.

I don't want to be a roadblock to what the community wants, nor am I intending to hold anyone hostage over it. But I do want to make clear that if it is allowed, I will maybe/possibly/likely step down as a mod of CCP and V&C.

We have talked about other options numerous times as well, such as giving them their own forum with their own mods, which I would have no problem with. I certainly get why it might make more sense to fold them in to V&C, though.

As to the discussion about Detroit and Portland rooms, I have answered that before as well. I don't know the status of every room in every jurisdiction. If some of the rooms that have threads in V&C are not actually legal rooms and/or are not regulated, I'd be in favor of locking those threads as well. If they exist today, it's not evidence of a double standard, it's evidence that I just don't know whether those rooms are regulated rooms or not. My understanding is that the rooms in Detroit area are regulated charity rooms. I am less sure about the OR rooms.

Are you ok with a sub to V&C called Texas Rooms that you don't mod? I'm not sure how it works, maybe the software makes you a mod of any subs to V&C. I don't want to participate in chasing you off dinesh, I believe you are a substantial positive to the forums, so hopefully we can find a solution that leaves you in your position. If we CAN just make a Tx Rm sub I'll be happy to fill in for you, just on that sub.

You know that the Texas rooms are advertising on radio stations here and have billboards on the highways and no telling what all else, so I'm not sure how much more legit they're ever going to become. They are definitely not "underground" by any stretch of the imagination.

As far as regulation, are Native American Casinos subject to regulation? I think not, I've heard some real horror stories about Winstar ripping people off when they hit big jackpots, so I think we already have tons of unregulated rooms with threads in your forum.

I am 110% fine with Texas rooms being in any forum I don't mod, including a subforum to V&C. I'm not trying to restrict anything happening elsewhere on 2+2. I do understand why that might be a little more confusing though, though certainly no less confusing than having them in Home Games.

I would in particular ask for Lattimer's input on that though. This isn't really important to anyone else besides us, but generally speaking I mainly mod the main forum, and Lattimer mainly mods the V&C forum, so his opinion on that specific proposal should carry a little more weight.

I think most tribal casinos are subject to tribal regulation. But again, IANAL, and I'm also not really interested in pedantic language parsing. It has always been fairly clear at a gut level what rooms are legal rooms and what rooms are not. This TX (and I guess maybe OR) room issue is the first one that has been a little bit gray, to my knowledge.

And you know that within the last year+ several rooms in TX have been raided and/or shut down merely by virtue of having poker, and the people running those rooms are currently under indictment with all their assets seized (civil asset forfeiture...ugh, that is actually my largest legal pet peeve). If you're saying they are obviously legal, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. There is an obvious path to making those rooms "legit", much like has been done in PA, DE, MD, FL, MI, IL, and numerous other states. Will TX follow that path? I have no idea, but there doesn't seem to be any obvious movement in that direction at the moment.

No, I'm not saying they are obviously legal, just that they are a far cry from underground.

That is fair. I'm not now and have never said that they are simply underground rooms. They are in a gray area.

Yet at the same time, this site receives ( or at least has received in recent years) advertising money from underground app poker clubs/agents which are very clearly and unquestionably operating illegally.

I think that the minimum criteria for a room thread in LCP is that some of the games have to be open to the public, not subject to police shut down for operating and the owners would condone discussion of their existence. Most TX rooms meet that minimum today. That said, the mods of that forum wanted higher standards than that which was their right. Being regulated is the next step up which for a long time I thought was reasonable.

The problem is that 2+2 for years allowed Pokerstars and Full Tilt Poker advertise and have threads on the site, even though we found out later they were subject to shut down. I don't think today there is a good reason to exclude TX rooms. Since there is no advertising today, there is no advertiser who can get upset that their ad is next to an unregulated operator..

Dinesh, I work for a company that is highly regulated and in addition, strongly anti-gambling. Even mentioning a March Madness pool in an company email is grounds for dismissal. I disclosed my involvement with 2+2 to compliance when I started. Nobody had a problem with it and still don't. I think if you let your compliance people know of the change, I suspect they will be fine.

My apologies, and to Dinesh as well. He did mention previously that the rule existed before he became a mod. And I have no issue with Dinesh or attempting to chase him off, I'd just like to see better discussion options and visibility for rooms in TX than the current method.

I don't see how what money the site does or doesn't receive from app clubs/agents is relevant, given that there's been no suggestion that site ownership has an issue with threads about Texas poker rooms.

I guess it seems unclear who originally made the decision to not permit TX rooms to be in Venues & Communities since Dinesh says the rule existed prior to him coming on board.

So I suppose some will assume the rule existed based on a higher up (admin or owner) making it, perhaps based on the same issue that Dinesh has which is the legality concerns.

So pointing out the various poker apps being discussed has some synergy with the discussion, IF the concern is a legal one for the site.

Except that -
At some point the mods at that time decided that the current set up is the way things should be. It is my understanding that to change things the current mods need to make that decision. No amount of "what about" is going to matter.

Who originally made the decision is indeed unclear, but not especially important. What hopefully is clear now, because I've said as much a couple of times, is that current ownership, and previous ownership from what I recall, has not expressed an issue with the idea. So as I mentioned earlier:

And I think that's what's happening now. When Lattimer has a chance to provide his thoughts, that will help us understand where we're at.

Hopefully I'm not coming across as condescending with this, as it's not my intention - just trying to keep the thread on the path of some helpful discussion. I think some legitimate points have been raised; I've never been a big fan of the current situation, so it would be great to find a better solution.

When should we expect a response?

I don't really have the time/desire to deal with stuff like this anymore. I'm fine staying on as just a helper mod and picking the low-hanging fruit when I come across it, which is mostly all I've been doing for the past year anyway. I've talked with dinesh and he's fine with that. So when it comes to rules and policies of the CCP and V&C forums, it's now a one-man show, and dinesh is your man.

Ty for the response Lattimer, and offering to assist as a helper mod. Guess we just need to see how Dinesh would like to proceed?

Yeah. And apologies for making you all wait this long just for what was essentially a "my opinion doesn't matter" reply.

So we are back to Dinesh deciding what he wants to do. Yea or nay?

I *think* Dinesh was fine with the change, provided he wasn't responsible for moderation of the section where Texas room discussions are permitted? Or at least he said it might make him bow out of involvement with moderation of said section I believe.

Yeah basically. As far as I know, you live in New England and haven't ever visited these Texas rooms, nor do you plan to in the near future. Is that correct? Are you just sticking your nose into our forums' business like you did when you helped push Rapini out? Why do you care?