Jib (and madnak) hijacking the most successful thread in the forum by far from atheists and changing it's title and scope completely without even PMing me is very indicative of the overall problems.

Yeah I would be interested in that getting looked into as well. I mean I am done with RGT anyway since Jib is going to drop the hammer on me the next time I don't bold a post response to his liking, but seems ****ty for those that stay there as a precedent.

Also wtf @ "not liking Jib as a person". I don't know anything about Jib as a person other than I assume he is a he and he is religious to whatever degree. I have not been around long enough and my beef is finding out that there has been some pretty lame whitewashing going on and that Jib has too thin of skin to be a mod and abuses his power (imo). The end. Bunny 4 mod.

This post by Original Position should be in this thread since the locked thread is such an issue.

The idea behind locking the thread is the issue as well as the idea behind the new rules.

The specific thread should probably be unlocked but I don't see why it would ever blossom into fruitful discussion, so I also don't really care. Kind of two separate things, not sure why that is difficult for the defenders to see.

As far as jib not responding to a high content post that would take huge amounts of research. And then months later asking for high content threads. I see those as separate issues.

The reality of RGT is there is a lot of low content surrounded by good posts. Its not a terribly bad idea to have high content threads for those who want them. Jibs non response to high content in one thread doesn't change that the idea isn't half bad.

There is nothing wrong with jib not responding to posts that would make most theologians think hard and then asking for high content threads.

Batair, fair enough and I agree with those points. I saw the word "harassment" again and it put me on tilt.

Rhetorical mostly I guess: are there really no "abusive" theist posters? Jib didn't list any. Dogg, Concerto, Splendour, RiverAnAce are allowed to get away with a lot. Someone who really wanted high content would be shutting them down too. Strange that it is only the atheist posters who are abusive enough to ruffle the theist mod who also happens to get caught up in these same conversations.

Im not sure how long you have been reading the forum. But since jibs been a mod Rize has had it out for him. That thread is part of a larger picture. And no im not going to show you my perception is right, take it or leave it. But you are free to read some of the old threads to see.
The high content threads are new. But if i had to guess Splendor wouldn't make the cut (no dig splendour neither would i). Doog Concerto and RiverAnAce although harsh sometimes do have some high content in their posts and i think they could hold their own on some topics.

Jib said the non high content threads would be more opened now that we have high content threads. So they and you should be able to low content it up in there afaik. As long as you dont break rule 5 of the high content threads....

As far as insults and abuse goes i kind of agree. The thing is theists usually guise theirs in theology instead of just calling people asses. So it goes something like.

Atheists: You are a fool and vile.

Theists: "Psalm 14:1 For the director of music. Of David. The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good."

Same thing imo. But what can you do.

It was not two days later. It was three months later.

Rize posted on 8/11/10. I posted on 11/10/10.

As far as my "jab" at Jib, I simply entertained the possibility that Jib didn't truly intend on researching the issue and returning with an answer, which i gotta say, doesn't seem too far fetched as we approach the one year anniversary since he last posted about it.

I'm going to try to make this my last post itt. No promises, but I've said most of what I can possibly say about this issue. I never expected Jib to be de-modded as a result of this, nor was that my intended goal for joining this thread.

I'd be very satisfied if Jib would just admit he pulled the trigger too early on locking that thread as a result of being frustrated by the people who bumped it.

This is not the post of a calm person. He clearly was pissed off and made an irrational decision, and one could easily make a case that it is abusive towards myself and the other two posters he was speaking to. In other words, it is certainly no less abusive than my bumping the thread and questioning Jib's intentions going forward.

I'd also like to hear from Mat, if he thinks the reasons Jib gave for locking that thread are good reasons. But I understand if he is too busy or just wants to talk to Jib about it in private.

Other than that, lolreligion and I'll see you all in hell

Also worth reiterating, ITT Jib admitted he deleted my post without reading it and then did nothing to rectify the situation when he realized his error when he very easily could have. It wasn't a big deal and wasn't even a good post or anything. I thought the point was good but that is neither here nor there, you can't start banning people for disagreeing with their points and not using proper bolding notations. I made a mathematical construct which should be plenty high content.

If someone looked at all of Hopey's posts (for example) that were deleted I have a feeling there are lots of candidates for "why was this deleted?" as well. I concede to having no evidence for this though aside from Hopey seeming very reasonable and non-abusive in general. I will just file it under something I would be interested in seeing reviewed if there was time and someone cared.

I also never expected Jib to be unmodded fwiw but I figured I would aim high. I am not going to give him the chance to ban me so it doesn't matter, he wins, it is His forum after all.

You are correct I know nothing about that and I will just take it. But I also don't see what it has to do with hijacking rize's thread. I am not trying to be obtuse, it just seems like a double standard with Jib's threads. Can rize have the image thread changed to "High Content"?

Moderate the forum evenhandedly?

I wouldn't think so. But religion seems to be fairly universal amongst human beings. Across all cultures, all geographies, all ethnicities - religion exists. In one form or another. Thus, I conclude (and I'll be the first to admit no scientific data since I haven't researched this deeply enough to have that) that there is a universal "need" for religion of some sort amongst human beings.

I agree. Specific religions are taught. But the concept of "religion" seems to me to be pretty innate. And, yes, I would include in this the "religion", if you will, of believing that no god(s) at all exist.

As much as it does to continue to thinking that there is one. Yes. At least, that's my opinion. I'm fully aware that others can and will disagree.

Which seems to be where we are at with regards to this discussion.

Lee

Although it was an error on my part in deleting the post (although it would have never happened if you would have followed standard fyp etiquette and bolded the changes), I did not notice there error until you started this thread.

All of this would have been avoided and I would have happily undeleted your post had you followed the rules and PM'd me in the first place.

I am done with this thread (probably). Mat and I have closed the issue between us. I would rather spend my posting time responding to Bunny in the HC thread then here.

Oh your right. Like i said before it was a bump asking for a response after jib said it would take time.

It was a jab. If you want to pretend it wasn't. Alright.

Either way why do you care. I dont see you bumping non responses of others when that happens all the time. Why Jibs non response? The best i can tell its not about the non response. Its about who didn't respond.

I thought it was madnak who mostly did that hijacking. I think we need a new thread for his demodding.

No. Its not high content afaik.
I should of explained myself better but it was late. The way i see it is its about the bluntness of the insults and abuse.

There arent rally any theists who directly come out and insult others like a few atheists do. There are atheists and theists who are more subtle in there *******ness. And both get away with it. I think overall its pretty even handed. Atheists and theists who arent blunt can get away with subtal abuse.

First, I'll note that I don't have any complaints about jibninja's moderation of the forum. I just wish he'd post more.

However, there do seem to be two somewhat legitimate complaints here.

First, because of the animosity displayed towards jibninja's posting by some of the RGT regulars (if rizeagainst is just calling a spade a spade, then he must be shoveling a lot of crap), a lot of the responses to jibninja's actual posting require more careful moderation than usual. This creates a fairly clear conflict of interest. However, we could solve this if madnak and jibninjas agreed to a policy of not moderating their own threads. That is one of the reasons to have two moderators, no?

Second, a lot of the discontent here seems to be a result of a certain faction of the more anti-theistic atheist regs who don't think that their views are fairly represented by the moderators. Since I disagree with bunny about dictatorship (I don't think it presents a very sustainable model), I vote for more representation. Since I do think he's made a good-faith effort to be less negative (even if he is still sometimes a bit sensitive as in this thread), I nominate loK2thabrain for third mod.

Well, obviously. Otherwise it wouldn't be a "bump."

Okay, it was a jab. So now we can't give jabs to moderators?

I care because of the image Jib tries to portray. I'm going to expect more from someone who often claims his belief in jeebus is based on reason and logic. When that person gets to a point where they do not have an answer for something, well, I view that as pretty much the pinnacle of discussion in RGT. That's what its all about (hyperbole ftw).

So when he gets to that point, and to be frank, just gives up, I think that says a lot. And again speaking frankly, it's annoying from someone who consistently claims his position is the rational one in the god/no god debate.

For others, they don't care about stuff like this. And that's fine too. But I don't think it should come as a shock to anyone that this type of behavior would annoy some people.

Jib has a nasty habit of spending hours debating in threads, only to disappear right when he starts getting backed in a corner. He's just about the worst offender on RGT in that regard.

And then when he gets called out on this behaviour, he labels the people pointing this out as "trolls" and "poo-flingers" and uses his mod powers to delete posts, lock threads, and infract people. He (with Madnak) even had a rule added that prohibits people from bumping threads in order to ask another poster to continue a debate. As far as I can tell, this rule primarily benefits Jib -- nobody else abandons debates with the frequency that Jib does, and nobody else reacts as angrily to having their threads bumped as he does.

His behaviour in the second paragraph is what people have the biggest problem with. It's an abuse of his mod powers to so heavily moderate threads that he is actively involved in.

You can but when you take constant jabs at a mod over multiple threads like it was back then. You get what you get. I got no sympathy.

Do you even realize how in depth Original Position post were? When i say it would take years of research im not exaggerating. Jibs not a college level theologian so its understandable he would need time.

That you didn't/don't understand that means you were, in reality, more stumped then him in that thread.
It really doesn't say much other then he was over his head (and who isn't when it come to Original Position).

Which lets be real, is the real reason you guys kept bugging him. You liked that he got stumped and you wanted to rub it in.

NotReady says the same things and he doesn't answer a lot of posts. Why dont you guys bug him?

Its about how one bumps and asks for a response. Ive asked jib to respond to posts of mine he didn't response to more then once. But was never called a troll or poo-flinger. And i would bet good money if it was Original Position asking jib to responded. There would be none of that.

Going with that spade spade thing. Rize and loK had a habit of following jib around taking shots at him. Which was what that was all about. They didn't really care about a response or that jib left the thread. They wanted to bump it to show jib got stumped/owned. Take a shot.


I do agree with the conflict of interest thing and didn't like the lock. But with that said. Jib was right. It was just going to turn into the usual poo-fling.


I mean i just dont get it overall anyway. If the people who jibs not responding to have no problem. What business is it of someone else's.

Jib is smart enough to know that he can't get away with escaping a thread by labeling someone like Original Position as a troll. He needs a "poo-flinger" to post in the thread before he can justify locking it. Lucky for him, Lok and rize were only too happy to oblige.

It's a public forum. You don't need to be actively posting in a thread to be engaged in it. If Jib didn't want other people to be involved or to have opinions about the thread, he and OP could have conducted their debate through PM.

RGT also has the added element of there being two "sides" to most debates -- atheists vs. theists. It's only natural to want to see your side win -- and to react negatively when it appears that one side isn't playing fair in order to avoid admitting defeat on some issue.

NotReady is not a mod so he is not held to the same standard as Jib. When NotReady posted regularly, he used to be routinely accused of intellectual dishonesty when it came to such things as the TOE, but he didn't have the power to delete posts and lock threads in retaliation when such charges were leveled against him.

Here's another thread where Jib started waving his mod e-peen around when he got backed into a corner:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...heists-963654/

He started deleting posts on page 2 (you can see a few posters commenting on it), and by page 4 he was threatening to ban people for asking for him to respond (and ban me for referring to him as an ID'er), hand out infractions, and lock the thread.

Well thats kind of the point. They flung poo and he locked it because of said poo. If they didn't fling no lock.

Now if jibs just taking advantage of them flinging. Idk. Im not a mind reader. But his reason for the lock is right. Poo was flinging.
Yeah i guess your right and if someone said something like. I would be really interested in a response to OrP's posts, do you have one yet jib? Im sure their would be no problem. But thats not what Rizes and Lok's post were about. They were about poo.

But jib did eventually admit defeat itt. He didn't avoid it.

Alright good point.


I do have a question though. How do you think Rize and Lok would be treated in B&M or OTT or Politics if they acted towards their mods in the way they acted towards jib. Because i think they the would of been banned long ago. If anything i think jibs has shown a lot of restraint towards them.