Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkJr
After all the deletions and bans in the politics forum, this is our emissary to ATF to lodge a complaint? If one of your proposed solutions is to shut the forum down, then just GTFO and don't come into the politics forum.
To anybody that cares, OP's posts are not representative of the current complaints among politics regs. Anybody can read the moderation thread there and get a better idea of the things posters are unhappy about. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...hread-1831564/
FWIW, I don't think it is constructive to be a dick to Browser in ATF. He is a nice and decent person who clearly has a different moderation philosophy than people on 2p2 are used to, gets attacked for it, and then feels that he needs to double down to assert authority. I think that a lot of mods would probably react similarly if they felt that they were being disrespected every day. I cannot speak for everybody in politics, but when I type out my complaints in the mod thread, I am hoping that he can at least see our POV and maybe lighten up somewhat. I think if we are going to publicly come at Browser, we should do it in politics. Even though he dares us to come to ATF at least twice a week, I don't think it is cool to air our dirty laundry over here for everybody to see.
I appreciate your comments. I would take exception to one statement though. I don't double down to assert some sense of authority. I simply enforce the rules as I see them. And as I have stated many times in our mod thread, and the reason I have encouraged people to come to ATF to surface their views, is from my perspective this conflict arises from the site rules themselves, and only the higher ups can approve any changes to those.
Here is rule number one, and the first guideline from the 2+2 rules page:
Quote:
2+2 Rules
No personal attacks. A personal attack is an attack directed at a person (or group of people), rather than at a post or argument itself. This is, of course, somewhat subjective. Basically, be kind to one another, or at the very least, keep it civil. Very few people want to read lengthy flame wars. If someone attacks you, we ask that you use the “Report a Post” button rather than responding in kind. Attack the argument, not the person.
and:
GUIDELINES
Try to be kind, helpful, and respectful, and contribute to meaningful and productive discussion.[
These are pretty straight forward rules. And I don't see how, when you disagree with someone, calling him a ****ing moron, an idiot, insulting his parents, calling him low IQ, etc, etc, is anything but a violation of those rules and guidelines. It certainly isnt attacking the argument rather than the person. It certainly isnt kind, respectful or civil.
So the problem from a mod perspective (or at least this mods perspective) is expecting a mod to let some level of personal attack go by while taking action on others. That's like before the boss goes into a meeting telling the secretary to "hold some calls"( an old Mel Brooks line.) And it implies there is some master list ranking insults by severity. Is calling someone a moron higher or lower than calling him a ****ing moron? Where does low IQ fall? Racist, fascist, transphobe, homophobe, etc. Obviously each poster will perceive insults as having differing degrees of offense.
An organization's ( or in this case website's) actual standards are what is allowed to occur around it, despite whatever the written policy states. If a company has a policy that says everyone must be at work by 9am, but no action is taken against those who repeatedly show up at 10am, then the actual standard is 10am. In cases like that the written policy needs to be changed to 10 am to avoid confusion as to what is allowed and what isnt.
Mods enforce the standards set by company policy. If the policy is no personal attacks and attack the argument not the person, then posters who personally attack or insult the other posters should expect mod action, from warnings to short bans to longer bans. If that is an unacceptable level of moderation, then the rules should be changed to reflect the actual desired culture of the site.
But imo, don't expect mods to just ignore the rules and guidance completely, or worse yet, ignore "some violations". Either expect the rules to be enforced, or change the rules.