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01-21-2019 , 03:03 AM
I thought bundy said he was going to start his own politics forum. I'm excited to get in on the ground floor of that when it happens.
01-21-2019 , 03:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaya
Bundy shouldn't be contained, he should be banned. He's clearly on 2p2 for the sole purpose of getting the politics forum closed.
Have you read any of my posts in ATF?
01-21-2019 , 03:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by auralex14
Oof, you got me. I didn't report any of them. But I have to assume jman wouldn't have done anything about it because he was actively participating at that time.
You did not quote any either.


I did see NhlNut start out with a broad brush attack against the left though. Not a good entry. Ill keep reading for your offensive posts.

Edit: Alright i read it. Seems he is just outnumber and people disagreed without insult or hate. At most someone politely questions his motives. Fake news...

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He actually went at Nhl based on a faulty assumption of his.
He said he made a mistake and apologized. No insults or incivility as far a i can see.

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I'm not interested in spending any effort in trying to fix the unfixable.
Ok then im not sure why we are talking.

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The Politics forum will never exist the way Mason seems to want it to. That said, I hope he doesn't nuke it since it contains people I'd rather not see on forums I do visit.
ok.
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To your last point, that's why I began by saying 'it depends on your definition of fake news.'
Ill go by your definition. What was fake?

Last edited by batair; 01-21-2019 at 03:18 AM.
01-21-2019 , 03:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
If everyone thinks it without saying it, there still won't be "vigorous debate with a little fun" imo. However, my involvement in the moderation of our politics forum is basically over.

Mason is now heading up that movement with the current moderators and users.
Because speech and thought are entangled, requiring people to use more respectful words instead of slurs also requires them to think more respectfully.
01-21-2019 , 03:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
Pretty sure my guess was right...The wolf knew the forum was on the hate watch list and knew Mason was fed up with what he sees as its hateful climate. So he starts an account attacking with the intent of playing the martyr and getting one of 2p2 forums closed. My only question is whats his real account...
Mason has decided to take the route of rehabilitation. I am more than willing to offer suggestions and discuss what rehabilitation steps need to be taken if anyone wants to hear my opinion.

Rehabilitation is clearly the more desirable outcome. But what should be done if rehabilitation of the subforum can't be managed? What then?
01-21-2019 , 03:22 AM
I think you are living it now.
01-21-2019 , 03:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
I thought bundy said he was going to start his own politics forum. I'm excited to get in on the ground floor of that when it happens.
Yeah sorry been a bit busy. Does ATF count in the meantime?
01-21-2019 , 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyebooger
I'm totally sure this thread won't be a massive train wreck.
It will only reflect the current state of the politics forum - I mean former state, right? Political chat about the Politics Forum
01-21-2019 , 03:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo
Mason has decided to take the route of rehabilitation. So I am more than willing to offer suggestions and discuss what rehabilitation steps need to be taken.

But what should be done if rehabilitation of the subforum can't be managed? What then?
I dont think it needs rehabilitation. Im ok with people being mean and *******s since it lets me know i should not waist to much effort on them.

But it looks like the rules are going to get clammed down in a more evenhanded way so good and bad buttholes reform or get booted. Not good enough for you?
01-21-2019 , 03:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
But it looks like the rules are going to get clammed down in a more evenhanded way so good and bad *******s reform or get booted. Not good enough for you?
You have two mods there. One thinks about half the electorate are deplorables, people who should be shamed and driven away. The other doesn't believe that smashing the windows of the offices of republican congress members is an act of violence. I don't think these two are capable of evenhandedness over an extended time period.
01-21-2019 , 03:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
Any non-political posters wish to weigh in here?
After being given feedback from 6 people...

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Originally Posted by bundy5
Non-mods too please as you have a propensity to have a less than welcoming attitude when it comes to posters making complaints about forums or moderators.
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Originally Posted by bundy5
No please do go on - all those posters you quoted have a clear political bias in favour of the overwhelming majority that post in the politics forum while Rapini while he is going to Rapini as usual not sure if he continues to hold that opinion following my posting for Ms OOT as it was done fairly early on and before the politards really diseased up that contest.
So, let me go back and FYP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
Any non-political posters that aren't mods, and don't have what I consider to be a clear political bias wish to weigh in here?
Or to cut to the chase, does anyone that will say nice things about bundy want to weigh in? He wasn't really looking for negative feedback.
01-21-2019 , 03:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo
You have two mods there. One thinks about half the electorate are deplorables, people who should be shamed and driven away. The other doesn't believe that smashing the windows of the offices of republican congress members is an act of violence. I don't think these two are capable of evenhandedness over an extended time period.
Dont think you or i get to be the judge of that. Guess will see.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett


Or to cut to the chase, does anyone that will say nice things about bundy want to weigh in? He wasn't really looking for negative feedback.
He is old and harmless and mostly yelling at clouds. Whats the big deal. I like him kind of.

Last edited by batair; 01-21-2019 at 03:44 AM.
01-21-2019 , 03:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
After being given feedback from 6 people...




So, let me go back and FYP:


Or to cut to the chase, does anyone that will say nice things about bundy want to weigh in? He wasn't really looking for negative feedback.
A clear political bias in favour of the prevailing one currently systemic in politics, sure.
01-21-2019 , 03:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
Dont think you or i get to be the judge of that. Guess will see.




He is old and harmless and mostly yelling at clouds. Whats the big deal. I like him kind of.
Old? Because I tend to support conservative positions or because I'm rather argumentative?
01-21-2019 , 03:49 AM
Because i thought you said you were old. Fake news?
01-21-2019 , 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
Because i thought you said you were old. Fake news?
No you must be confusing me with someone else which is a scary proposition given there are not too many other conservative posters on here.
01-21-2019 , 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
Who he can actually name a conservative politics poster who is still here (whether banned or nor) apart from the guy that started the trump thread or senorkeed (he probably won't like me saying that so I'll say a conservative sympathizer at the very least)?
This is just conflating the issues again. Again to use raradevils as an example, he hasn't posted since Dec 8, I don't know if he's gone permanently. If he is, it's as a result of bullying and inadequate moderation, and I already said so in the "Status Of This Forum" thread.

But, rara was never remotely in danger of getting banned or exiled. Neither was seattlelou, who has disappeared, or domer2, who still posts in Politics (I think?) but not in the main threads. To turn it back around, if the problem is Wookie's poor moderation, say, who in Politics, aside from also-banned posters and maybe chezlaw, I guess (Edit: and batair, apparently) do you think would be keen to undo the exile? You're claiming to be banned as a result of bad moderation, but your definition of a good moderator is "someone who won't ban me". Anyone who wants to ban you, it's political bias LDO, even though there have been long-term conservative posters who were not banned.
01-21-2019 , 03:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
No you must be confusing me with someone else which is a scary proposition given there are not too many other conservative posters on here.
Well you seem old and like a cloud yeller so im going to go with that anyway.
01-21-2019 , 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by auralex14
Another great example would be to go to the 'Trump's America' thread and see how NhlNut was treated wrt this topic.

My favorite part was when he had to defend his undertitle.
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Originally Posted by batair
Could you quote the posts you have problems with? After you reported them did you pm a mod with your concerns?

Also what part was fake news? Incomplete maybe but i did not see fake.
Come on guys, he was a deplorable. He was treated fairly. This is a new era for politics and the totally level headed mods are leading the way

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=7823

Also it's really tedious explaining simple things like "fake news" Jake Tapper already described it as fake news, he just didn't use the same vocabulary. For example, editing down a 1.5 minute video to 1 minute and formulating a story/narrative that is debunked by the other 30 seconds is "fake news". Go to Tappers twitter if you're still confused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
There are two separate issues here. It's true that some conservative posters have been bullied and conservative opinions screamed at. raradevils is my pet example, there have been others.

Then there's the issue of people who are just bad posters, who annoy people for one reason or another. The arrogant drivel juan valdez vomited out upthread ably demonstrates why none of us are interested in having him in Politics threads.
I realize its annoying and comes across as condescending explaining really simple and obvious things to adults behaving like emotional children. Wookie called me a white supremacist and when asked for evidence he found a post where I point out a completely uncontroversial statistic that there is a massive racial disparity in single parent homes. In the same post I also referenced the uncontroversial fact that single parent homes are disproportionately poor regardless of race. The impact on poverty as a predictor is enormous. I brought that up in response to Well Named lecturing everyone on the subject and being completely blind to this. I'm the first to admit its not exactly interesting. I realize close minded people don't want to hear things that contradict their assumptions. Apparently the mod calling me a white supremacist has hit a jackpot by finding me quoting Don Lemon and color blind poverty statistics. yawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo
I don't mind a little fun, with vigorous debate. But there was no debate. It was demonize the messenger. And I admit there was one meme that had me rolling on the floor:
Spoiler:


lol that was actually good
01-21-2019 , 04:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
This is just conflating the issues again. Again to use raradevils as an example, he hasn't posted since Dec 8, I don't know if he's gone permanently. If he is, it's as a result of bullying and inadequate moderation, and I already said so in the "Status Of This Forum" thread.

But, rara was never remotely in danger of getting banned or exiled. Neither was seattlelou, who has disappeared, or domer2, who still posts in Politics (I think?) but not in the main threads. To turn it back around, if the problem is Wookie's poor moderation, say, who in Politics, aside from also-banned posters and maybe chezlaw, I guess (Edit: and batair, apparently) do you think would be keen to undo the exile? You're claiming to be banned as a result of bad moderation, but your definition of a good moderator is "someone who won't ban me". Anyone who wants to ban you, it's political bias LDO, even though there have been long-term conservative posters who were not banned.
How this disappoints me on so many levels if that particular poster has left. But then again he can hardly be blamed as you can only take so much abuse and trolling for so long.

Sometimes and hopefully under this regime that a number of your troublesome posters reflect back and realise how lucky you are to have posters contribute to your forums from the other side when the environment that has been created is less than inviting to do so.

But hopefully too the moderation now will reflect this and if not at least Mason will be taking a much more active oversight role.
01-21-2019 , 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by juan valdez
I was made aware of all of this by a PM from El Dabo Something. I think Mason becoming fed up with the state of "politics" on 2p2 is long over due. I had been proposing an alternative section with rules that would eliminate baseless attacks even when Chezlaw was failing at running a section that wasn't just a left wing community. I'm not in favor of Masons proposed solution to the obvious problem but it's certainly better than the present situation

If Mason is going to be keeping an eye on the politics forum and wants them to "do better" I think they should over turn exiles considering how biased the moderation has been. I know I was wrongfully exiled and Wookie has been presented the opportunity to defend his decision about a dozen times and chose not to. He was present and active in the thread but just didn't have any comment.

Well Named shared the same view I had expressed in the ATF thread I created about politics moderation. It's clearly a left wing community. If you want to find out if it can function as anything else, you should allow people with conservative views and even people in the center like me in there. This will accomplish a few things

1. Can the posters behave civilly to those with they disagree with?
2. Can moderators behave even remotely neutral?
3. If they aren't an intolerant left wing community/mob then why would their faces melt off at the idea posters with opposing views being allowed there?
4. If previously exiled posters were exiled for valid reasons, wouldn't the same thing happen again? This time with Mason able to witness if the moderation has been fair.


If you want to observe the current state of politics and the delusion that these posters are "liberal" just go here for the latest news. This is and endless cycle in the 2p2 echo chamber. This just happens to be today

It starts here https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/4.../index307.html

MAGA kids show up and are being kids. Someone snips an out of context clip to create some fake news. Like adult WWE fans they aren't just sitting back with popcorn, they're actually mad at the undertaker for hitting stone cold with a chair. Watch how they fall for it hook, line, and sinker. The outrage is just comical delusion and bias. To their (2p2) credit it's not as bad as social media where the minors have already been doxxed and they are planning/hoping the kids life is ruined. The indigenous drummer targeted a group of kids having fun and goofing around. They were interacting with a deranged group of black activists calling black MAGA kids the N-word and calling the white kids school shooters. The deranged activists were also clearly homophobic.

Anyways, as that is going on the indigenous drummer guy walks in to the crowd initiating the whole thing. One kid decides to just stand there. It gets super weird when the old drummer boy stands right in his face and inches closer. I assume the kid was trying not to laugh at the absurdity of the situation. Why wouldn't he just go around? the whole thing was absurd. Who exactly are the children and who are the adults here?

Don't just pay attention to the fake news and biased outrage. Pay attention to how fast the "liberals" in the politics forum don't actually care about liberal values. When they find out the black activists are homophobic losers, they won't care. When they find out the drummer boy's side kick is a straight up racist, they won't care either. The MAGA kids were acting the most liberal out of all 3 groups. They were also as mature, if not more mature than the actual "adults". They were just a group of young kids having fun. They were met with unhinged weirdos and they took it in stride without matching their absurdity. For kids, their behavior was totally fine. Personally I find activists from all sides to be weirdos but there can be exceptions

You can see/hear the racist indigenous guy at 1:30 and the homophobe at 7:00. Watch the outrage on 2p2 towards people with disgusting anti liberal values completely disappear (if the 2p2 politics regs ever get passed the fake news). Their faces will melt off at a minor committing a minor transgression but when adults go full bigot, they will yawn and move on... again

https://mirrorbot.ga/mirrors/ahtnos/
01-21-2019 , 04:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by juan valdez
Come on guys, he was a deplorable. He was treated fairly. This is a new era for politics and the totally level headed mods are leading the way


https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
My apologies then, it was the ordering of the posts and your responses that let me to believe that you were including the nazi picture as well.
.

Last edited by batair; 01-21-2019 at 04:14 AM.
01-21-2019 , 04:07 AM
See, that's an example of trolling because, in fact, I did read every gloriously stupid word of that and always do with juan valdez.
01-21-2019 , 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
How this disappoints me on so many levels if that particular poster has left. But then again he can hardly be blamed as you can only take so much abuse and trolling for so long.

Sometimes and hopefully under this regime that a number of your troublesome posters reflect back and realise how lucky you are to have posters contribute to your forums from the other side when the environment that has been created is less than inviting to do so.

But hopefully too the moderation now will reflect this and if not at least Mason will be taking a much more active oversight role.
Our neurology is such that we tend to mirror the behavior of the people around us. That is why when you hear a laugh track on a sitcom, it is more likely you will laugh at the gag. Laughing is an infectious emotion and so are anger and hate.

MrWookie and Jman220 cultivated a field of anger and hate, which gets mirrored by new arrivals. MrWookie and Jman220 then cull the new arrivals from the group if they are "deplorables". Seattlelou, Rara and the other posters touted as conservatives who never got banned might just come from the set of people who have fewer mirror neurons and so didn't troll back.
01-21-2019 , 04:11 AM
Really... i had to start skimming a long time ago.

      
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