Here is your answer. Create a new forum, make the white nationalists well named's problem, and mat can go back to drinking beers by his pool or whatever it is he does

Ive already answered both these questions

To sum up-
1) not a problem
2) to pass off the buck of dealing with whiny racists to well named, because the proposition of battling whiny dishonest racists with logic that they reject outright is, for whatever reason, alluring to him as a thought experiment

WN, which of the following posters will you allow to post?

Mongigdid
Wil
No Quarter
Broadway
TS
Goofyballer

Seems like every time I ask that question, WN seems very keen to avoid answering it.

Dunno why...

Read the last hundred posts of this this thread, ffs, which apparently you haven’t. Or bundy's closed thread. Possibly pvc's.

In other words, stop being intellectually lazy.

El D,

Is it possible that instead of an emotionless logic bot, you’re just an uninformed person when it comes to this topic and thus your oversimplification is more useless than you could possibly be aware of?

Rep,


Oh man, sick burn!

Ignoring that, perhaps you’re right about Mat’s attitude here. If so, that’s probably a fine attitude for most matters regarding the forums. But imo it’s not an acceptable attitude if it results in the creation of a forum here that’s welcoming to racism, white nationalism, and other related topics. Which is why I believe this topic is one that merits an actual position/opinion from those in charge of this site.

Rep, Loki: being condescending and snarky towards El D, regardless of what his motives are, is how - in general - leftists get saddled with being those two things constantly. Trolling or not, his questions are legit and being a dick to him just because he doesn't post in politics or know much about the situation is not a good look. At all.

Loki,


It’s certainly possible!

I believe Mat's view is that the mods of Politics should run it more or less as they wish, within forum guidelines. The reason he is considering a second forum is similar to why we had a second B&M forum for a while - there were a lot of complaints about how an otherwise successful forum was run and there is competent mod leadership willing to open and run a second forum.

Mat has been fairly consistent over the years about trying to not interfere too much with moderator standards.

yes.

Lol

it's not a burn, it's the truth. you've admitted that you don't really know how the moderation is in politics forum, and i explicitly said that it wasn't an insult to mat either. it's just the reality of the situation.

re: bolded, i agree (edit: which is why i haven't explicitly come out in support of the idea of creating a new forum).

i'm not being a dick and i'm treating him as tho he isn't trolling by answering all his questions. unfortunately posts like this don't do much to dispel the notion that he is simply trolling right now-

oh and,


see? not a moderation problem in main politics forum. mat just wishes to be as hands-off with this stuff as possible, and whiny racists are super annoying.

Didn't the last incarnation of PU/P7 generate more drama for you? Do you expect this next version will be any different?

This isn't at all complicated, from my perspective. Here's the story:

unchained was created as a reaction to complaints.

unchained was ultimately shutdown as a reaction to complaints.

as a reaction to the complaints about that forum being closed, this thread was created. as i said might happen when the forum was shuttered.

what happens next is entirely up to well named. i trust his judgment on this, completely.

Well named has been explicit that neither white nationalism nor racism is welcome in the proposed new forum. The claim by those opposing it is that regardless of what he says, well named won't or can't follow through on this.

yes. because i stayed somewhat involved before. i won't be a part of the moderation at all. just like i'm not in any forum, really. i'm just here to help make final decisions when needed.

Timmay,

Since you’re engaging in an earnest manner, I’ll give you a similarly earnest response.

I believe, in general, the more open discourse the better.

I also believe in standards of civility, decorum, and codes of conduct.

Letting the forums self-police clearly hasn’t worked to find an acceptable balance for all parties involved. And I don’t think creating a new forum and hoping everything magically works better this time is a reasonable solution.

That’s why I think this exercise is one of futility until those in charge define what’s acceptable on these forums, and people here can decide whether or not it’s a place that works for them based on those standards.

This.

WN said the same thing about the last forum he was in charge of, before it got shut down for being full of Neo-Nazi conspiracy theories.

I'm sure he'd follow through with this. The thing is when he does follow through with this it just becomes Politics Alpha v2 (with a sprinkling of white nationalism so long as the white nationalists are able to somewhat control their racism, which history tells us is very unlikely), and that's just really, really redundant.


Basically my exact feelings as well.

need to find more "balance" aka ways to appease racists/nazis who end up trolling every thread into oblivion

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/4...rules-1055823/

hopefully this helps clear up the confusion you seem to be suffering from

this is a perspective that needs to be addressed by well named.

Mat,

It’s somewhat distressing that you seem to be lumping complaints about things like racism/white nationalism/anti-semitism/etc in the same bucket as complaints about rapini being too hard on people posting about how much to tip dealers and stuff.

Chezlaw was far more responsible in the final days. I don't see WN turning a cheek if that **** crept up again.

OP,

Yes I get all that re: mat’s historical attitude re: forum management. I just think this particular topic merits a different level of consideration.

I didn’t realize reminding someone that they might not be subject matter experts was being a dick. I guess those guys who came up with Dunning-Kruger were real a-holes.