Somehow I missed that you were banned from that thread.

I understand exactly what you want. But I don't see it happening without divulging how it goes about deciding which ideas get passed on to PS. Nobody with the authority would ever approve it without at least knowing this first. And please note I'm not a mod of that forum, so any explanations to me would be wasted effort.

Hi Lattimer,

Sorry I didn't read that point of you. I will start my reply by saying you are right.

The regs do not have the truth or nor should they have to power to structure the games as they want.

They are on the other hand, as I stated regular customers. In that point of view I don't think it's nice from stars to treat their customers like that. Regulars are people that are trying to get better to optimalize their winnings. They make a lot of effort to improve and win more. By making changes that are only disadvantages to the regs I think stars is showing a a lack of respect towards their most paying customers.

I'm not stating stars should accept all the suggestions ... making us 40% winnings players isn't the way to go either.

Anyway. I think you're right and I also think (but I may have miscommunicated) that the new thread in wich suggestions can be made everyone should have a possibility to make suggestions .. if it's a popular suggestion and many people like it and it's proven not to be harmfull .. than it makes perfect sense to communicate it to pokerstars. This means that even if the majority of regs is opposed to the idea a well supported suggestion should be communicated to Stars.

I'm not using the language of Adyo 'Regs vs Recs'. I'm speaking the lanuage of democracy and economy --> the majority of the players don't want a change in wich many players are even the best paying customers, but stars sees a benifit (for themselves) to make a change .. so they make it anyway .. even though 90% of the people (regs and also recs) didn't support the decision

So you are right, the regs should not have this power. It's more about not giving stars all the power.

I hope this answers your remark ? If you feel I didn't answer it or if you disagree please reply. I believe we can have a good discussion here with solid communication.


EDIT:

Btw I'm actually a 'rec' I'm not making a living off of this. I'm a fulltime worker that enjoys playing poker so I'm not only taking the regs point of view. I'm trying to be as objective as I can be here

Yeah Wolfske I get what it is you guys want now.

112 posts and counting. And I was accused when making just one ****ty post in another thread.

No. It matters who it is, the must be able to remain impartial while presenting. The must not making decisions while presenting on the players behalf. It is to be a single dummy account, presented publicly so everyone can read the presentation and diaolog between the single dummy account and the stars rep. Again, I already know what to set up and how.
This will be one of the first myths I will dispel.
you and others are misunderstanding monopoly and the solution to it. This is why we are stuck in a thread arguing vs a brick wall.

One thing I want to show that some of the 'intelligent' players that think they are giving +ev suggestions, are making ones that PS would NEVER consider. These are bad suggestions because they are made by people that don't know what they are talking about.

Do you have an opinion on it ?

Like do you think it's reasonable that we just want to be carefull ..

Because it's not about making ROI's higher and rip off recreational players .. as I believe they will proably just invest x amount of money, not more or less. So it's not about winning their money faster. I don't think that will benefit anyone. Not regulars nor recreational players. It's about keeping the game profitable for the regulars and fun for the recreational players whilst keeping a good sustainability (wel that's my intention anyway)

And it's also about justice like I stated (democracy and stuff)

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read my opinion. I do appreciate it

This is all backward and exactly what I want to get dispelled. Almost every reg here thinks this way in some form or another and its completely not true.

So now we know the REAL reason players are stuck.

Its because we are trying to use a strategy that is not based on the ACTUAL fundamentals of the game.

Its like trying to be a better poker player, by playing harder.

Ok can you elaborate on:

- Your dummy account idea (wich sounds promising)

- Ok regs aren't the key customers. Please explain ? I think I do understand you in a way but it's important I'm sure that I understand you correctly

- Elaborate on the monopoly and the solution please.

- I believe everyone should be able to give suggestions and I also believe you are right about making suggestions that Stars would consider. In the new thread it would be possible to communicate about bad suggestions without we should have a fear of stars implementing it.

THIS TIMES INFINITE!!!!

And here is the reasoning if we need to see why this is: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...98&postcount=5

This is NOT what old school poker players believe.

When making solutions we always accidentally infuse democracy into them. not the freedom kind of democracy but the one that doesn't work. So players assume we intend to elect a representative to negotiate with stars. This is not to be so. We are decentralizing the process, so no specific player holds power over the other players.
In order solve this problem and/or to understand the solution, you must allow me to redefine recs and regs. Recs play for entertainment, regs play for income. Recs donate and Regs withdrawal. Regs pay zero rake. If we dont' understand the game properly, our strategy CANNOT work. There is a caveat here, that only winning poker players can understand this. This means that many here will not understand and will disagree.

monopoly is the thing that does not fall from the solutions you propose to break it. I'm not being vague, its very definition is that it cannot be combated by public opinion and voting your money elsewhere. So I am called insane, but we say insanity is repeating the same process expecting different results. Our only excuse was we didn't have an alternate route, that has changed now.

oh ffs, I wasted so much time and energy engaging this guy in what I thought was a genuine discussion, and all the time he's just that crazy dude with a hardon for Nash and Bitcoins?

u already said you agree with me, and that just dont' wanna get behind it because you don't like me...

I'm crazy with an ego problem?

This discussion never had a rail

it would sure look different tho, if mods cut out the people that have come here solely to troll me.

Hopefully I get some sincere reactions on my post and against all odds the discussion may actually be fruitful

So there's like a truly mathematical zero chance that this Adyo and Wolfske guy are different people, right?

I'm sure Tyler has an even better list of filled checkboxes than I do.


Hey Adyo, I don't know who you are. I don't know your past work. I don't know other people's opinions of you. From this thread based on your posts alone, I think you have some sort of disorder like narcissism that's causing you to think that you are somehow above criticism because everyone else just isn't smart enough to be on your level.

Of course, whether this is true or not is irrelevant to the real discussion you're trying to have. I just wanted to point out that the resistance you're receiving is not solely based on people's past knowledge of who you are and your posting history...that stuff can be gleamed just from this thread alone. I don't want to derail from the actual discussion though:

When you run your own company and have sole control over all decisions, then you can mold your model to benefit the minority of people that use your product. Those "smart people" that share a certain goal will greatly enjoy it, while the "recreational people" will rather use a product that caters to their wants and needs. Pokerstars doesn't want to make changes that benefit the few and presumably hurt the many. I don't know that this would be the effect of your ideas, but when you're sitting over there being all cryptic about the changes you'd like to implement instead of just telling us what they are, you're not helping your case any. Maybe you DO have some awesome ideas that would be beneficial to EVERYONE. I don't know, but I don't know because you haven't shed any light on it, not because I'm too stupid to understand.


Side note on being too stupid to understand, by the way. I feel like the end of this discussion when/if you finally make the reveal of your idea is going to be akin to how someone says they have a way to beat roulette and, after a long thread of arguing and claims of "you're just not smart enough to see it how I see it", we find out the guy is onto some form of Martingale. Everyone throws their arms up in the air in disgust like "OMG I wasted to much time on THIS??"


So let's hear your idea. I'm sure it's well thought out. I'd hate to never get to hear it because you assume everyone is too stupid to understand it.

Yup zero, i checked. I have a history of deception in this but not lying, not malicious, and it would serve me no purpose. I have recently chatted with them tho, mostly because of all this.


Thx. the problem is you need to know my history to understand why that isn't so. And you can't count on these people because they don't know how or why they are confused on my history and presentation.
Its actually extremely relevant, but wasn't to be covered in the scope of my request in this thread. But it doesn't matter, even if you are stuck on this belief I still think your tone and intentions will allow you to let me convince you of the merit of the small change I am asking for (one thread).

I want you to understand something please, with your sincerest of intentions. What you point out here is what I want to point out to the players. I want to show them mathematically, to each solution that has been proposed, that they players are asking for things that stars will not grant. The players want to tell me Im stupid because its the only things we can ask for and the only way to do it, and I want them to first admit this is not possible, and ONLY EVER THEN can we discuss a solution.

Let me say it a different way so you understand me well, we have nothing to lose but our ego from proving to ourselves that the large bulk of our suggestions are NOT things poker stars will consider.

The current thread is full of players asking these things, and full of players getting frustrated.

They are simply playing bad poker, I'm SURE you understand me.

Now please understand because you have not read all these peoples posts over the past couple years. I'm not sincerely looking down on these people. There are a ton of essentially trolls that follow me around saying this guy is an idiot don't listen to him. I am calling THOSE people idiots, because they are getting in the way of progress and berating me without taking the time to understand how simple of a solution it is and how correct it is.

So you think I'm being mean to people that truly don't understand because they don't have the gift of intelligence. But I would never purposefully (and rarely accidentally) treat someone that way. For example I would never call a fat person fat in order to hurt them. Or I mean to say, if i have done it, I don't agree with that sort of thing.

So please understand who I am calling stupid, people like mods that have come in this thread only to troll and call me egotistical, while ignoring the solution and causing the community to suffer.

Again if you understood what is going on (I do appreciate your attempt), you would know that I got banned while trying to explain, with STILL zero explanation from whomever banned me (maybe TT)?

so its not some idea that when you hear you will realize ive been stalling about it, and players will toss it aside and realize they wasted their time calling me an idiot.

It's a logistical change in the way we view the process. This is the current process:
Its complete absurd stupidity, and this is why people who don't read my point, and calling me and idiot, get the very same treatment back.

Its a simple solution, we create a thread for the players to discuss their ideas, and then only 1 completely impartial account presents the ideas we accept as a community to stars.

Don't tell me stars won't care...I KNOW THIS. We are stopping the idiot process that I outlined above.

The only question left is how we will pick the actual intelligent ideas from the non intelligent ones. I have a solution for that and I'm not sure if I even need to tell you. I have specific tangible parts to this solution but the general idea is that on the tables we are happy to pretend that we don't know who the intelligent players are....but in the community the only players that are confused are the ones that don't know what they are doing.

But I do have a specific system in mind for the thread. I am sorry to take ur time and split this into two posts, but I want to see if i still have your attention before I explain to you the process that will stop the fighting, and filter the best ideas to the top.

Once you understand all this, once you see how easy and obvious it is, I will then be able to explain to you how we structure our presentation in such a way that we have ACTUAL pull in the negotiation process as players....

Of course I probably shouldn't mention it because if the mods won't even give me a thread to stop the madness of stars quoting our "official suggestions", they sure as hell won't do it if i explain my solution of how to structure our presentations to ACTUALLY work.

You want to tell me poker is set at the market equilibrium, I want to show you why it is bull**** and keynsian thinking that nash dispelled in his paper ideal money. The markets are not at an equilibrium because 2 + 2 is holding the players hostage (perhaps unknowingly) in the negotiation process.

The ONLY purpose that thread serves at the present time, is a place for players to get tricked into thinking their suggestions matter. Its a trick. And only intelligent players will believe me, recognize it, recognize the solution, and demand change.

You have never been banned for "trying to explain" anything. You've been banned for HOW you try to do things. Like everyone this happens to, you will probably never know the difference. And like all of them, you'll just keep claiming you were banned for expressing an unpopular idea.

Take this very thread, for example. You started essentially the same thread. It was going nowhere (like this one). Bobo closed it.

Your response? Immediately start another one. This is never the path to interacting responsibly with the community.

I don't know why I'm even telling you this, I literally don't think you're capable of understanding how you come across and why you'll never convince anyone of anything.

We don't know this until the mod that did it explains. Understand tho, I believe you and essentially agree. But what you are arguing at this point, is me saying "we don't know why I was banned because the mod that didn't hasn't seemed to enter the discussion", but I am saying it in the form of "i got banned because he didn't like the idea".

Furthermore, when we realize I am right, how are you going to justify his banning? I was being an idiot *******, by talking about a solution to a problem we have while all the players gang up on me calling me and idiot *******? You weren't there for all that, you were only there for me biting back at them.

The people you think you are refering to as proof that I have always been this way, are calling me an idiot ******* because they have not understood me for 2 years. Its not because I was acting in a malicious idiotic way.

what i am saying is regardless of what it LOOKS like, I will bring favorable change to everyone here, and that is not stupid nor is it being an *******. That fact that I've offended a bunch of people that have nothing to but try to find faults with everything I do, does not concern me.
Yup and bobo's response was to merge it and let the discussion continue, even tho another mod already banned it. How ****ed is that? especially when I am correct, and the only person thus far working to correct this wrong for the community.


Your telling me this because you sense something. And as a matter of fact I know exactly whey you feel this way and how I have come across. i have come a across as an ignorant arrogant idiot *******. Which is exactly how I have been treated by the large majority of this community, and exactly how they treat others around this community.

Now lets admit I am right and peoples we that attitude are losing the pull they have on the community. Its going to happen anyways.

a) the fact that you think these two things are forms of the same thing is a symptom of your problem

b) it would be trivial for you to ask TeamTrousers why he did what he did. You have not done so. It is on you to do so, if you want to know

c) I disagree that we don't know why you were (temp) banned.

This is an example of what I expect, wish, and will be able to change if I can have this thread....and it won't be me pointing this things out, but we need the appropriate place do to it...

I realize I am not saying anything revolutionary, but we need the collective thread, that is specifically built for the purpose I have laid out...

How many examples, how much explanation must I give, before I get to make 1 THREAD.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/61.../#post43064435




you are really arguing my idea is wrong, because they understood it, and knew it was right, I would not have got banned. I was simply telling the players the current process is wrong, and the players were calling me and idiot and a troll for it.

Then I was banned.

I am not aware of the actually mod who did it, if it was TT they can let me know.

I explained to you perfectly what I meant by that, and that I pretty much agree we know. What I am saying is we don't KNOW until they say. Don't come back and say "yes we do because I'm smart and I know why he didn't it cause your and idiot *******"

You are arguing me for no reason, I am simple using my words to indirectly say, the mod that did it should show up in this thread on their own accord.

If you weren't purely trying to argue me that would be completely obvious to you.

Can you describe what it is you want in one or two sentences?

One thread, for 7 days.

No. This is a stupid request.

Its not stupid, in fact I suspect its standard to let someone know that it was you that banned them, and to give them the reason for it.

you want me to be the one to bring them in, but i refuse.

We want this person to bring themselves, to show the players that they have been span censoring most of the strat posts, strat threads, videos, and articles written....and that this mod is the one that snap banned the only person who has a solution to our collective issue.

You still think I'm wrong and a crazy idiot, you've been listening to others with out reading the content. Yes we are still debating this.

But I know, that it will get sorted out....and then we'll be asking, why did adyo get ridiculed and banned for this.

Let me ask you something. How you feel about calling me and idiot ******* spazz etc. (I realize you never said these words but its certainly the implication)....

and that after 2 years of riducule, berating, players calling me and idiot, cowards ganging up on me, troll posters doing nothing but nitpick my grammer....and so on

mods snap banning my strat posts because they don't know me?

soooo much of it, my entire time here...

And I just continue to calmly state what I have been stating the whole time, I have the solution that will bring great favorable change for everyone here, including the ones that continue to treat me inhumanely day in and day out. You don't recognize patience in that?

Wait, what? I can lock this thread again if it's some kind of a problem.

BTW, what mod supposedly banned this discussion? I've never seen a mod's post to that effect.

Are you just pretending you don't know who it was so you can keep trying to put it on TT to reply in this thread (which he may or may not be aware of) rather than sending him a message, or is your memory really this poor?