Exiled from P without a right of reply
11-07-2017
, 12:41 PM
11-07-2017
, 01:11 PM
I don't know. I think the poor of the world should rise up and violently enslave the richest in the world and take all their money and use it to pay for education, health care, fund clean energy, things like that. You tell me.
The chicken crossed the road to distract you and keep you from pestering me with all these clucking questions
The chicken crossed the road to distract you and keep you from pestering me with all these clucking questions
11-07-2017
, 01:19 PM
11-07-2017
, 03:09 PM
Quote:
I don't know. I think the poor of the world should rise up and violently enslave the richest in the world and take all their money and use it to pay for education, health care, fund clean energy, things like that. You tell me.
The chicken crossed the road to distract you and keep you from pestering me with all these clucking questions
The chicken crossed the road to distract you and keep you from pestering me with all these clucking questions
Have never been a revolutionary, more like a part time rebel.
Last edited by plaaynde; 11-07-2017 at 03:14 PM.
11-07-2017
, 03:36 PM
11-07-2017
, 03:46 PM
11-07-2017
, 04:06 PM
11-07-2017
, 04:47 PM
Quote:
I don't know. I think the poor of the world should rise up and violently enslave the richest in the world and take all their money and use it to pay for education, health care, fund clean energy, things like that. You tell me.
The chicken crossed the road to distract you and keep you from pestering me with all these clucking questions
The chicken crossed the road to distract you and keep you from pestering me with all these clucking questions
11-08-2017
, 12:11 AM
Since you are inferring that I, being a radical proponent of defensive class warfare for the poor, against the rich, am a bigot, I'm going to take some time to respond.
Let me ask you something. Throughout history, have we seen the poor enslaving and exploiting the rich, or is it the other way around? It's the other way around. The rich have been enslaving and exploiting the poor for thousands of years, and they continue to do so. They have been the ones waging class warfare against the poor, and it's never going to end.
In the United States, there has been growing economic inequality for a hundred years. Here are some charts you might find interesting, perhaps you've seen them before, perhaps not.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...harder-charts/
http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/16/news...lass/index.htm
So in the US, labor unions have been gutted, corporate profits have been soaring, and instead of that wealth trickling down with new, well paying jobs for Americans, the corporations just outsource and find cheap labor overseas. Here's what that looks like ...
These are pictures of children mining tin in Indonesia for Apple.
http://www.businessinsider.com/secre...norama-2014-12
Ok, so mining tin is dirty, dangerous work. Kids and adults overseas just need to get good factory jobs making products for American corporations! Here's what that looks like.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30548468
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...device-extract
Here's what Foxconn's suicide nets look like.
Of course, Foxconn is a company town where workers not only work for 12 hours a day, but they live there, meet mates, get married and have children, all in the factory. Here's some pictures of the dorms.
Here's some makeshift bunks on what looks to be a production floor of the factory.
I'm sure by now you get the picture of the kind of working and living conditions men, women, and children that make Iphones are subject to. They are clearly exploited, and I consider them to be enslaved by the invisible hand.
So how about Apple CEO, Tim Cook? With all these rough living and working conditions, he's gotta have it kind of rough, right? Actually, no. Tim Cook is super rich, while children die in tin mines to line his pockets, and people kill themselves in the company town that makes his products.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Cook
Well, in any case it's all good because Apple pays their fair share of taxes, right? Right???? Riiiiiiight ....
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41889787
Ok well, we just need some tax reform in America, right? Sure, sounds great! And Trump and his Republican friends are doing just that! It's totally not gonna benefit the super rich, at the expense of the poor and middle class, right? Right??? Riiiiiight ....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetno.../#2741fc3d1099
Well, at least it will be great for education!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f72b8b64d2a0
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...duate-students
Finally, how about a little personal story?
Many of my IRL friends work at a carpentry shop that builds custom made cabinets for homes. This is in a very poor town. The owner of the shop owns several other companies, and is very well off. A multi millionaire.
About fifteen miles south of this poor town is a pretty affluent city, and in this city there is a golf course that kids in public schools practice on with their school golf team. Sorry, I'm wrong. There WAS a golf course that children practiced on with their school golf team. The businessman purchased the entire golf course, destroyed all the greens so people wouldn't play on them any more, and is now in the process of turning the clubhouse into a gas station. He stands to make millions of more dollars to line his pockets.
Oh but wait, he's super rich and is making even more money, so surely the conditions at the cabinet shop and the pay will improve, right? Riiiiiiiiiight. Most people make $8 ****ing dollars an hour and are seeing absolutely no raise at all. The working conditions aren't improving either. For this whopping $8 dollars an hour, they get to work with old equipment without safety guards, and people constantly sustain injuries while working. Several people have lost multiple fingers.
These friends of mine go home and live luxory condos like Tim Cook. No, sorry. They live in ****ing trailers down eroded dirt roads. They live in places like this.
Their mobile homes are down roads like this.
So Bobo, I guess you just don't get that throughout the last hundred years, and even more so right now, the super rich of the world have been waging class warfare against the poor and middle class. I recognize this, and I want to see it reversed. Tim Cook says he'll give his fortune away, I'd like to see the poor of the world rise up and make sure that happens.
I want to take all of this
And give it to people like this.
And turn these people
Into these people.
And you infer I'm a ****ing bigot.
Roll, ****ing, eyes.
Let me ask you something. Throughout history, have we seen the poor enslaving and exploiting the rich, or is it the other way around? It's the other way around. The rich have been enslaving and exploiting the poor for thousands of years, and they continue to do so. They have been the ones waging class warfare against the poor, and it's never going to end.
In the United States, there has been growing economic inequality for a hundred years. Here are some charts you might find interesting, perhaps you've seen them before, perhaps not.
Quote:
Productivity has surged, but income and wages have stagnated for most Americans. If the median household income had kept pace with the economy since 1970, it would now be nearly $92,000, not $50,000.
Quote:
Incomes for 90% of Americans have been stuck in neutral, and it's not just because of the Great Recession. Middle-class incomes have been stagnant for at least a generation, while the wealthiest tier has surged ahead at lighting speed.
In 1988, the income of an average American taxpayer was $33,400, adjusted for inflation. Fast forward 20 years, and not much had changed: The average income was still just $33,000 in 2008, according to IRS data.
Meanwhile, the richest 1% of Americans -- those making $380,000 or more -- have seen their incomes grow 33% over the last 20 years, leaving average Americans in the dust. (How the rich became the über rich)
Experts point to some of the usual suspects -- like technology and globalization -- to explain the widening gap between the haves and have-nots.
But there's more to the story.
A real drag on the middle class
One major pull on the working man was the decline of unions and other labor protections, said Bill Rodgers, a former chief economist for the Labor Department, now a professor at Rutgers University.
Because of deals struck through collective bargaining, union workers have traditionally earned 15% to 20% more than their non-union counterparts, Rodgers said.
But union membership has declined rapidly over the past 30 years. In 1983, union workers made up about 20% of the workforce. In 2010, they represented less than 12%.
"The erosion of collective bargaining is a key factor to explain why low-wage workers and middle income workers have seen their wages not stay up with inflation," Rodgers said.
Without collective bargaining pushing up wages, especially for blue-collar work -- average incomes have stagnated.
International competition is another factor. While globalization has lifted millions out of poverty in developing nations, it hasn't exactly been a win for middle class workers in the U.S.
Factory workers have seen many of their jobs shipped to other countries where labor is cheaper, putting more downward pressure on American wages.
"As we became more connected to China, that poses the question of whether our wages are being set in Beijing," Rodgers said.
Finding it harder to compete with cheaper manufacturing costs abroad, the U.S. has emerged as primarily a services-producing economy. That trend has created a cultural shift in the job skills American employers are looking for.
Whereas 50 years earlier, there were plenty of blue collar opportunities for workers who had only high school diploma, now employers seek "soft skills" that are typically honed in college, Rodgers said.
A boon for the rich
While average folks were losing ground in the economy, the wealthiest were capitalizing on some of those same factors, and driving an even bigger wedge between themselves and the rest of America.
For example, though globalization has been a drag on labor, it's been a major win for corporations who've used new global channels to reduce costs and boost profits. In addition, new markets around the world have created even greater demand for their products.
"With a global economy, people who have extraordinary skills... whether they be in financial services, technology, entertainment or media, have a bigger place to play and be rewarded from," said Alan Johnson, a Wall Street compensation consultant.
As a result, the disparity between the wages for college educated workers versus high school grads has widened significantly since the 1980s.
In 1980, workers with a high school diploma earned about 71% of what college-educated workers made. In 2010, that number fell to 55%.
Another driver of the rich: The stock market.
The S&P 500 has gained more than 1,300% since 1970. While that's helped the American economy grow, the benefits have been disproportionately reaped by the wealthy.
And public policy of the past few decades has only encouraged the trend.
The 1980s was a period of anti-regulation, presided over by President Reagan, who loosened rules governing banks and thrifts.
A major game changer came during the Clinton era, when barriers between commercial and investment banks, enacted during the post-Depression era, were removed.
In 2000, the Commodity Futures Modernization Act also weakened the government's oversight of complex securities, allowing financial innovations to take off, creating unprecedented amounts of wealth both for the overall economy, and for those directly involved in the financial sector.
Tax cuts enacted during the Bush administration and extended under Obama were also a major windfall for the nation's richest.
And as then-Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan brought interest rates down to new lows during the decade, the housing market experienced explosive growth.
"We were all drinking the Kool-aid, Greenspan was tending bar, Bernanke and the academic establishment were supplying the liquor," Deutsche Bank managing director Ajay Kapur wrote in a research report in 2009.
But the story didn't end well. Eventually, it all came crashing down, resulting in the worst economic slump since the Great Depression.
With the unemployment rate still excessively high and the real estate market showing few signs of rebounding, the American middle class is still reeling from the effects of the Great Recession.
Meanwhile, as corporate profits come roaring back and the stock market charges ahead, the wealthiest people continue to eclipse their middle-class counterparts.
"I think it's a terrible dilemma, because what we're obviously heading toward is some kind of class warfare," Johnson said.
In 1988, the income of an average American taxpayer was $33,400, adjusted for inflation. Fast forward 20 years, and not much had changed: The average income was still just $33,000 in 2008, according to IRS data.
Meanwhile, the richest 1% of Americans -- those making $380,000 or more -- have seen their incomes grow 33% over the last 20 years, leaving average Americans in the dust. (How the rich became the über rich)
Experts point to some of the usual suspects -- like technology and globalization -- to explain the widening gap between the haves and have-nots.
But there's more to the story.
A real drag on the middle class
One major pull on the working man was the decline of unions and other labor protections, said Bill Rodgers, a former chief economist for the Labor Department, now a professor at Rutgers University.
Because of deals struck through collective bargaining, union workers have traditionally earned 15% to 20% more than their non-union counterparts, Rodgers said.
But union membership has declined rapidly over the past 30 years. In 1983, union workers made up about 20% of the workforce. In 2010, they represented less than 12%.
"The erosion of collective bargaining is a key factor to explain why low-wage workers and middle income workers have seen their wages not stay up with inflation," Rodgers said.
Without collective bargaining pushing up wages, especially for blue-collar work -- average incomes have stagnated.
International competition is another factor. While globalization has lifted millions out of poverty in developing nations, it hasn't exactly been a win for middle class workers in the U.S.
Factory workers have seen many of their jobs shipped to other countries where labor is cheaper, putting more downward pressure on American wages.
"As we became more connected to China, that poses the question of whether our wages are being set in Beijing," Rodgers said.
Finding it harder to compete with cheaper manufacturing costs abroad, the U.S. has emerged as primarily a services-producing economy. That trend has created a cultural shift in the job skills American employers are looking for.
Whereas 50 years earlier, there were plenty of blue collar opportunities for workers who had only high school diploma, now employers seek "soft skills" that are typically honed in college, Rodgers said.
A boon for the rich
While average folks were losing ground in the economy, the wealthiest were capitalizing on some of those same factors, and driving an even bigger wedge between themselves and the rest of America.
For example, though globalization has been a drag on labor, it's been a major win for corporations who've used new global channels to reduce costs and boost profits. In addition, new markets around the world have created even greater demand for their products.
"With a global economy, people who have extraordinary skills... whether they be in financial services, technology, entertainment or media, have a bigger place to play and be rewarded from," said Alan Johnson, a Wall Street compensation consultant.
As a result, the disparity between the wages for college educated workers versus high school grads has widened significantly since the 1980s.
In 1980, workers with a high school diploma earned about 71% of what college-educated workers made. In 2010, that number fell to 55%.
Another driver of the rich: The stock market.
The S&P 500 has gained more than 1,300% since 1970. While that's helped the American economy grow, the benefits have been disproportionately reaped by the wealthy.
And public policy of the past few decades has only encouraged the trend.
The 1980s was a period of anti-regulation, presided over by President Reagan, who loosened rules governing banks and thrifts.
A major game changer came during the Clinton era, when barriers between commercial and investment banks, enacted during the post-Depression era, were removed.
In 2000, the Commodity Futures Modernization Act also weakened the government's oversight of complex securities, allowing financial innovations to take off, creating unprecedented amounts of wealth both for the overall economy, and for those directly involved in the financial sector.
Tax cuts enacted during the Bush administration and extended under Obama were also a major windfall for the nation's richest.
And as then-Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan brought interest rates down to new lows during the decade, the housing market experienced explosive growth.
"We were all drinking the Kool-aid, Greenspan was tending bar, Bernanke and the academic establishment were supplying the liquor," Deutsche Bank managing director Ajay Kapur wrote in a research report in 2009.
But the story didn't end well. Eventually, it all came crashing down, resulting in the worst economic slump since the Great Depression.
With the unemployment rate still excessively high and the real estate market showing few signs of rebounding, the American middle class is still reeling from the effects of the Great Recession.
Meanwhile, as corporate profits come roaring back and the stock market charges ahead, the wealthiest people continue to eclipse their middle-class counterparts.
"I think it's a terrible dilemma, because what we're obviously heading toward is some kind of class warfare," Johnson said.
So in the US, labor unions have been gutted, corporate profits have been soaring, and instead of that wealth trickling down with new, well paying jobs for Americans, the corporations just outsource and find cheap labor overseas. Here's what that looks like ...
These are pictures of children mining tin in Indonesia for Apple.
Quote:
The BBC's "Panorama" show has aired a brutal documentary about Apple that makes two main claims:
* That Apple sources the tin for its iPhones from mud pits in Indonesia where children work, risking frequent mudslides that frequently claim lives.
That work inside its Chinese iPhone factories is so grueling that workers fall asleep on the factory line.
...
The documentary covers a lot of news that has previously been aired about Apple's factories — video and footage have aired from inside the Pegatron and Foxconn factories before. China Labour Watch, a workers rights organization, is one of the sources in the report. CLW is a longtime critic of work at Apple's outsourced factories.
But the BBC has gone a step further by following the Apple parts supply chain back to the source, where the BBC found children digging for tin in mud pits in Bangka, Indonesia. The workers are at constant risk of being buried in landslides as the walls of the makeshift opencast mines are hosed to sheath off more mud and expose more tin ore for iPhone parts.
The program also showed dredgers raking up the sand and coral from the seabed in Indonesia to get tin, churning the formally pristine ocean and coral reefs into a sea of mud. The coral doesn't grow back, a marine scientist on the show says.
The BBC also found:
Twelve people living in each factory dorm room when the rules call for only eight to a room.
Bullying from factory managers.
Workers falling asleep standing up because they're all on 12-hour shifts.
Workers too exhausted to eat.
One worker complaining he was so exhausted from making iPhones that he would fall asleep before reaching the bathroom at the end of the day.
The BBC went to Apple's Cupertino, California, headquarters believing it had an appointment with "Apple's top people," but when the filmmakers arrived Apple declined to speak to them on the record.
The section of the documentary on tin mining is new, however. Tin is heavily used in iPhones, the BBC says, and it comes from Indonesia.
Apple's suppliers have illegal man-made islands in Indonesia consisting of dozens of boats lashed together that rake up muddy tin ore from the seabed, the BBC says.
Also in Indonesia, the BBC found children working in mud pits in which there are frequent landslides.
* That Apple sources the tin for its iPhones from mud pits in Indonesia where children work, risking frequent mudslides that frequently claim lives.
That work inside its Chinese iPhone factories is so grueling that workers fall asleep on the factory line.
...
The documentary covers a lot of news that has previously been aired about Apple's factories — video and footage have aired from inside the Pegatron and Foxconn factories before. China Labour Watch, a workers rights organization, is one of the sources in the report. CLW is a longtime critic of work at Apple's outsourced factories.
But the BBC has gone a step further by following the Apple parts supply chain back to the source, where the BBC found children digging for tin in mud pits in Bangka, Indonesia. The workers are at constant risk of being buried in landslides as the walls of the makeshift opencast mines are hosed to sheath off more mud and expose more tin ore for iPhone parts.
The program also showed dredgers raking up the sand and coral from the seabed in Indonesia to get tin, churning the formally pristine ocean and coral reefs into a sea of mud. The coral doesn't grow back, a marine scientist on the show says.
The BBC also found:
Twelve people living in each factory dorm room when the rules call for only eight to a room.
Bullying from factory managers.
Workers falling asleep standing up because they're all on 12-hour shifts.
Workers too exhausted to eat.
One worker complaining he was so exhausted from making iPhones that he would fall asleep before reaching the bathroom at the end of the day.
The BBC went to Apple's Cupertino, California, headquarters believing it had an appointment with "Apple's top people," but when the filmmakers arrived Apple declined to speak to them on the record.
The section of the documentary on tin mining is new, however. Tin is heavily used in iPhones, the BBC says, and it comes from Indonesia.
Apple's suppliers have illegal man-made islands in Indonesia consisting of dozens of boats lashed together that rake up muddy tin ore from the seabed, the BBC says.
Also in Indonesia, the BBC found children working in mud pits in which there are frequent landslides.
Ok, so mining tin is dirty, dangerous work. Kids and adults overseas just need to get good factory jobs making products for American corporations! Here's what that looks like.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30548468
Quote:
In an extract from his new book, Brian Merchant reveals how he gained access to Longhua, the vast complex where iPhones are made and where, in 2010, unhappy workers started killing themselves
The sprawling factory compound, all grey dormitories and weather-beaten warehouses, blends seamlessly into the outskirts of the Shenzhen megalopolis. Foxconn’s enormous Longhua plant is a major manufacturer of Apple products. It might be the best-known factory in the world; it might also might be among the most secretive and sealed-off. Security guards man each of the entry points. Employees can’t get in without swiping an ID card; drivers entering with delivery trucks are subject to fingerprint scans. A Reuters journalist was once dragged out of a car and beaten for taking photos from outside the factory walls. The warning signs outside – “This factory area is legally established with state approval. Unauthorised trespassing is prohibited. Offenders will be sent to police for prosecution!” – are more aggressive than those outside many Chinese military compounds.
...
The vast majority of plants that produce the iPhone’s component parts and carry out the device’s final assembly are based here, in the People’s Republic, where low labour costs and a massive, highly skilled workforce have made the nation the ideal place to manufacture iPhones (and just about every other gadget). The country’s vast, unprecedented production capabilities – the US Bureau of Labor Statistics estimated that as of 2009 there were 99 million factory workers in China – have helped the nation become the world’s second largest economy. And since the first iPhone shipped, the company doing the lion’s share of the manufacturing is the Taiwanese Hon Hai Precision Industry Co, Ltd, better known by its trade name, Foxconn.
Foxconn is the single largest employer in mainland China; there are 1.3 million people on its payroll. Worldwide, among corporations, only Walmart and McDonald’s employ more. As many people work for Foxconn as live in Estonia.
Today, the iPhone is made at a number of different factories around China, but for years, as it became the bestselling product in the world, it was largely assembled at Foxconn’s 1.4 square-mile flagship plant, just outside Shenzhen. The sprawling factory was once home to an estimated 450,000 workers. Today, that number is believed to be smaller, but it remains one of the biggest such operations in the world. If you know of Foxconn, there’s a good chance it’s because you’ve heard of the suicides. In 2010, Longhua assembly-line workers began killing themselves. Worker after worker threw themselves off the towering dorm buildings, sometimes in broad daylight, in tragic displays of desperation – and in protest at the work conditions inside. There were 18 reported suicide attempts that year alone and 14 confirmed deaths. Twenty more workers were talked down by Foxconn officials.
The epidemic caused a media sensation – suicides and sweatshop conditions in the House of iPhone. Suicide notes and survivors told of immense stress, long workdays and harsh managers who were prone to humiliate workers for mistakes, of unfair fines and unkept promises of benefits.
The corporate response spurred further unease: Foxconn CEO, Terry Gou, had large nets installed outside many of the buildings to catch falling bodies. The company hired counsellors and workers were made to sign pledges stating they would not attempt to kill themselves.
Steve Jobs, for his part, declared: “We’re all over that” when asked about the spate of deaths and he pointed out that the rate of suicides at Foxconn was within the national average. Critics pounced on the comment as callous, though he wasn’t technically wrong. Foxconn Longhua was so massive that it could be its own nation-state, and the suicide rate was comparable to its host country’s. The difference is that Foxconn City is a nation-state governed entirely by a corporation and one that happened to be producing one of the most profitable products on the planet.
...
The vision of life inside an iPhone factory that emerged was varied. Some found the work tolerable; others were scathing in their criticisms; some had experienced the despair Foxconn was known for; still others had taken a job just to try to find a girlfriend. Most knew of the reports of poor conditions before joining, but they either needed the work or it didn’t bother them. Almost everywhere, people said the workforce was young and turnover was high. “Most employees last only a year,” was a common refrain. Perhaps that’s because the pace of work is widely agreed to be relentless, and the management culture is often described as cruel.
Since the iPhone is such a compact, complex machine, putting one together correctly requires sprawling assembly lines of hundreds of people who build, inspect, test and package each device. One worker said 1,700 iPhones passed through her hands every day; she was in charge of wiping a special polish on the display. That works out at about three screens a minute for 12 hours a day.
More meticulous work, like fastening chip boards and assembling back covers, was slower; these workers have a minute apiece for each iPhone. That’s still 600 to 700 iPhones a day. Failing to meet a quota or making a mistake can draw public condemnation from superiors. Workers are often expected to stay silent and may draw rebukes from their bosses for asking to use the restroom.
Xu and his friend were both walk-on recruits, though not necessarily willing ones. “They call Foxconn a fox trap,” he says. “Because it tricks a lot of people.” He says Foxconn promised them free housing but then forced them to pay exorbitantly high bills for electricity and water. The current dorms sleep eight to a room and he says they used to be 12 to a room. But Foxconn would shirk social insurance and be late or fail to pay bonuses. And many workers sign contracts that subtract a hefty penalty from their pay if they quit before a three-month introductory period.
The sprawling factory compound, all grey dormitories and weather-beaten warehouses, blends seamlessly into the outskirts of the Shenzhen megalopolis. Foxconn’s enormous Longhua plant is a major manufacturer of Apple products. It might be the best-known factory in the world; it might also might be among the most secretive and sealed-off. Security guards man each of the entry points. Employees can’t get in without swiping an ID card; drivers entering with delivery trucks are subject to fingerprint scans. A Reuters journalist was once dragged out of a car and beaten for taking photos from outside the factory walls. The warning signs outside – “This factory area is legally established with state approval. Unauthorised trespassing is prohibited. Offenders will be sent to police for prosecution!” – are more aggressive than those outside many Chinese military compounds.
...
The vast majority of plants that produce the iPhone’s component parts and carry out the device’s final assembly are based here, in the People’s Republic, where low labour costs and a massive, highly skilled workforce have made the nation the ideal place to manufacture iPhones (and just about every other gadget). The country’s vast, unprecedented production capabilities – the US Bureau of Labor Statistics estimated that as of 2009 there were 99 million factory workers in China – have helped the nation become the world’s second largest economy. And since the first iPhone shipped, the company doing the lion’s share of the manufacturing is the Taiwanese Hon Hai Precision Industry Co, Ltd, better known by its trade name, Foxconn.
Foxconn is the single largest employer in mainland China; there are 1.3 million people on its payroll. Worldwide, among corporations, only Walmart and McDonald’s employ more. As many people work for Foxconn as live in Estonia.
Today, the iPhone is made at a number of different factories around China, but for years, as it became the bestselling product in the world, it was largely assembled at Foxconn’s 1.4 square-mile flagship plant, just outside Shenzhen. The sprawling factory was once home to an estimated 450,000 workers. Today, that number is believed to be smaller, but it remains one of the biggest such operations in the world. If you know of Foxconn, there’s a good chance it’s because you’ve heard of the suicides. In 2010, Longhua assembly-line workers began killing themselves. Worker after worker threw themselves off the towering dorm buildings, sometimes in broad daylight, in tragic displays of desperation – and in protest at the work conditions inside. There were 18 reported suicide attempts that year alone and 14 confirmed deaths. Twenty more workers were talked down by Foxconn officials.
The epidemic caused a media sensation – suicides and sweatshop conditions in the House of iPhone. Suicide notes and survivors told of immense stress, long workdays and harsh managers who were prone to humiliate workers for mistakes, of unfair fines and unkept promises of benefits.
The corporate response spurred further unease: Foxconn CEO, Terry Gou, had large nets installed outside many of the buildings to catch falling bodies. The company hired counsellors and workers were made to sign pledges stating they would not attempt to kill themselves.
Steve Jobs, for his part, declared: “We’re all over that” when asked about the spate of deaths and he pointed out that the rate of suicides at Foxconn was within the national average. Critics pounced on the comment as callous, though he wasn’t technically wrong. Foxconn Longhua was so massive that it could be its own nation-state, and the suicide rate was comparable to its host country’s. The difference is that Foxconn City is a nation-state governed entirely by a corporation and one that happened to be producing one of the most profitable products on the planet.
...
The vision of life inside an iPhone factory that emerged was varied. Some found the work tolerable; others were scathing in their criticisms; some had experienced the despair Foxconn was known for; still others had taken a job just to try to find a girlfriend. Most knew of the reports of poor conditions before joining, but they either needed the work or it didn’t bother them. Almost everywhere, people said the workforce was young and turnover was high. “Most employees last only a year,” was a common refrain. Perhaps that’s because the pace of work is widely agreed to be relentless, and the management culture is often described as cruel.
Since the iPhone is such a compact, complex machine, putting one together correctly requires sprawling assembly lines of hundreds of people who build, inspect, test and package each device. One worker said 1,700 iPhones passed through her hands every day; she was in charge of wiping a special polish on the display. That works out at about three screens a minute for 12 hours a day.
More meticulous work, like fastening chip boards and assembling back covers, was slower; these workers have a minute apiece for each iPhone. That’s still 600 to 700 iPhones a day. Failing to meet a quota or making a mistake can draw public condemnation from superiors. Workers are often expected to stay silent and may draw rebukes from their bosses for asking to use the restroom.
Xu and his friend were both walk-on recruits, though not necessarily willing ones. “They call Foxconn a fox trap,” he says. “Because it tricks a lot of people.” He says Foxconn promised them free housing but then forced them to pay exorbitantly high bills for electricity and water. The current dorms sleep eight to a room and he says they used to be 12 to a room. But Foxconn would shirk social insurance and be late or fail to pay bonuses. And many workers sign contracts that subtract a hefty penalty from their pay if they quit before a three-month introductory period.
Here's what Foxconn's suicide nets look like.
Of course, Foxconn is a company town where workers not only work for 12 hours a day, but they live there, meet mates, get married and have children, all in the factory. Here's some pictures of the dorms.
Here's some makeshift bunks on what looks to be a production floor of the factory.
I'm sure by now you get the picture of the kind of working and living conditions men, women, and children that make Iphones are subject to. They are clearly exploited, and I consider them to be enslaved by the invisible hand.
So how about Apple CEO, Tim Cook? With all these rough living and working conditions, he's gotta have it kind of rough, right? Actually, no. Tim Cook is super rich, while children die in tin mines to line his pockets, and people kill themselves in the company town that makes his products.
Quote:
According to Fortune, Cook has Apple stock worth about $120 million and options with a value of $665 million. In March 2015, he said he planned to donate his entire stock fortune to charity.
Well, in any case it's all good because Apple pays their fair share of taxes, right? Right???? Riiiiiiight ....
Quote:
The world's most profitable firm has a secretive new structure that would enable it to continue avoiding billions in taxes, the Paradise Papers show.
They reveal how Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its controversial Irish tax practices by actively shopping around for a tax haven.
It then moved the firm holding most of its untaxed offshore cash, now $252bn, to the Channel Island of Jersey.
...
Up until 2014, the tech company had been exploiting a loophole in tax laws in the US and the Republic of Ireland known as the "double Irish".
This allowed Apple to funnel all its sales outside of the Americas - currently about 55% of its revenue - through Irish subsidiaries that were effectively stateless for taxation purposes, and so incurred hardly any tax.
Instead of paying Irish corporation tax of 12.5%, or the US rate of 35%, Apple's avoidance structure helped it reduce its tax rate on profits outside of the US to the extent that its foreign tax payments rarely amounted to more than 5% of its foreign profits, and in some years dipped below 2%.
The European Commission calculated the rate of tax for one of Apple's Irish companies for one year had been just 0.005%
Apple came under pressure in 2013 in the US Senate, when CEO Tim Cook was forced to defend its tax system.
Angry that the US was missing out on a huge amount of tax, then-Senator Carl Levin told him: "You shifted that golden goose to Ireland. You shifted it to three companies that do not pay taxes in Ireland. These are the crown jewels of Apple Inc. Folks, it's not right."
Mr Cook responded defiantly: "We pay all the taxes we owe, every single dollar. We do not depend on tax gimmicks... We do not stash money on some Caribbean island."
Apple's questionnaire
After the EU announced in 2013 that it was investigating Apple's Irish arrangement, the Irish government decided that firms incorporated there could no longer be stateless for tax purposes.
In order to keep its tax rates low, Apple needed to find an offshore financial centre that would serve as the tax residency for its Irish subsidiaries.
In March 2014, Apple's legal advisers sent a questionnaire to Appleby, a leading offshore finance law firm and source of much of the Paradise Papers leak.
It asked what benefits different offshore jurisdictions - the British Virgin Islands, Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, Mauritius, the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey - could offer Apple.
The document asked key questions such as was it possible to "obtain an official assurance of tax exemption" and could it be confirmed that an Irish company might "conduct management activities… without being subject to taxation in your jurisdiction".
They also asked whether a change of government was likely, what information would be visible to the public and how easy it would be to exit the jurisdiction.
Leaked emails also make it clear that Apple wanted to keep the move secret.
One email sent between senior partners at Appleby says: "For those of you who are not aware, Apple [officials] are extremely sensitive concerning publicity. They also expect the work that is being done for them only to be discussed amongst personnel who need to know."
Apple chose Jersey, a UK Crown dependency that makes its own tax laws and which has a 0% corporate tax rate for foreign companies.
(continued)
They reveal how Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its controversial Irish tax practices by actively shopping around for a tax haven.
It then moved the firm holding most of its untaxed offshore cash, now $252bn, to the Channel Island of Jersey.
...
Up until 2014, the tech company had been exploiting a loophole in tax laws in the US and the Republic of Ireland known as the "double Irish".
This allowed Apple to funnel all its sales outside of the Americas - currently about 55% of its revenue - through Irish subsidiaries that were effectively stateless for taxation purposes, and so incurred hardly any tax.
Instead of paying Irish corporation tax of 12.5%, or the US rate of 35%, Apple's avoidance structure helped it reduce its tax rate on profits outside of the US to the extent that its foreign tax payments rarely amounted to more than 5% of its foreign profits, and in some years dipped below 2%.
The European Commission calculated the rate of tax for one of Apple's Irish companies for one year had been just 0.005%
Apple came under pressure in 2013 in the US Senate, when CEO Tim Cook was forced to defend its tax system.
Angry that the US was missing out on a huge amount of tax, then-Senator Carl Levin told him: "You shifted that golden goose to Ireland. You shifted it to three companies that do not pay taxes in Ireland. These are the crown jewels of Apple Inc. Folks, it's not right."
Mr Cook responded defiantly: "We pay all the taxes we owe, every single dollar. We do not depend on tax gimmicks... We do not stash money on some Caribbean island."
Apple's questionnaire
After the EU announced in 2013 that it was investigating Apple's Irish arrangement, the Irish government decided that firms incorporated there could no longer be stateless for tax purposes.
In order to keep its tax rates low, Apple needed to find an offshore financial centre that would serve as the tax residency for its Irish subsidiaries.
In March 2014, Apple's legal advisers sent a questionnaire to Appleby, a leading offshore finance law firm and source of much of the Paradise Papers leak.
It asked what benefits different offshore jurisdictions - the British Virgin Islands, Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, Mauritius, the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey - could offer Apple.
The document asked key questions such as was it possible to "obtain an official assurance of tax exemption" and could it be confirmed that an Irish company might "conduct management activities… without being subject to taxation in your jurisdiction".
They also asked whether a change of government was likely, what information would be visible to the public and how easy it would be to exit the jurisdiction.
Leaked emails also make it clear that Apple wanted to keep the move secret.
One email sent between senior partners at Appleby says: "For those of you who are not aware, Apple [officials] are extremely sensitive concerning publicity. They also expect the work that is being done for them only to be discussed amongst personnel who need to know."
Apple chose Jersey, a UK Crown dependency that makes its own tax laws and which has a 0% corporate tax rate for foreign companies.
(continued)
Ok well, we just need some tax reform in America, right? Sure, sounds great! And Trump and his Republican friends are doing just that! It's totally not gonna benefit the super rich, at the expense of the poor and middle class, right? Right??? Riiiiiight ....
Quote:
Corporations, business owners and the 1% are the big winners. Highly paid employees and the nation’s fiscal health are the big losers. Those are the most striking conclusions that can be drawn from a new analysis of the “Unified Framework for Fixing Our Broken Tax Code” (a.ka. the Big 6 plan) which the Trump Administration and key Republican Congressional leaders released earlier this week.
The analysis, issued today by the Tax Policy Center (a joint venture of the Urban Institute & Brookings Institution) projects that over the next decade the Trump/GOP plan would actually increase taxes on non-business individual income by $470 billion, while reducing taxes on business income by $2.6 trillion, and federal receipts from estate and gift taxes by $200 billion.
While some details remain to be filled in, the Trump/GOP framework would reduce the top corporate tax rate from 35% to 20% and the top rate on “pass through” business income reported and taxed on individual returns from 39.6% to 25%. Meanwhile, the top rate on non-business individual income (such as wages and interest) would drop to 35%; the standard deduction would be increased to $12,000 for individual filers and $24,000 for married couples; personal exemptions and many itemized deductions would be eliminated; and the $1,000 child tax credit would be increased by an as yet unspecified amount. (The TPC assumed it would be $500.) At the same time, the estate tax, which now only applies to estates of more than $5.5 million per decedent (or $11 million per couple) would be entirely repealed.
The analysis, issued today by the Tax Policy Center (a joint venture of the Urban Institute & Brookings Institution) projects that over the next decade the Trump/GOP plan would actually increase taxes on non-business individual income by $470 billion, while reducing taxes on business income by $2.6 trillion, and federal receipts from estate and gift taxes by $200 billion.
While some details remain to be filled in, the Trump/GOP framework would reduce the top corporate tax rate from 35% to 20% and the top rate on “pass through” business income reported and taxed on individual returns from 39.6% to 25%. Meanwhile, the top rate on non-business individual income (such as wages and interest) would drop to 35%; the standard deduction would be increased to $12,000 for individual filers and $24,000 for married couples; personal exemptions and many itemized deductions would be eliminated; and the $1,000 child tax credit would be increased by an as yet unspecified amount. (The TPC assumed it would be $500.) At the same time, the estate tax, which now only applies to estates of more than $5.5 million per decedent (or $11 million per couple) would be entirely repealed.
Well, at least it will be great for education!
Quote:
Teachers spend nearly $500 a year on supplies. Under the GOP tax bill, they will no longer get a tax deduction.
It’s well known that teachers — even those who earn meager salaries — dig deep into their own pockets for supplies to do their jobs, with one study estimating they spend an average of nearly $500 a year on everything from pencils to batteries.
For now, teachers can get a small tax break — deducting up to $250 from their taxes — for what they spend on supplies. But under the GOP tax reform bill, that deduction would go away for teachers and other categories of workers, including certain state and local officials and performing artists.
It’s well known that teachers — even those who earn meager salaries — dig deep into their own pockets for supplies to do their jobs, with one study estimating they spend an average of nearly $500 a year on everything from pencils to batteries.
For now, teachers can get a small tax break — deducting up to $250 from their taxes — for what they spend on supplies. But under the GOP tax reform bill, that deduction would go away for teachers and other categories of workers, including certain state and local officials and performing artists.
Quote:
Add graduate students to the list of potential “losers” in the House Republicans’ tax overhaul plan.
The bill, in its current form, eliminates or consolidates tax credits used by both graduate and undergraduate students — but those pursuing master’s degrees and PhDs will get hit the hardest by the proposed changes.
One of the most glaring: the possible end of nontaxable tuition waivers for grad students who work as teaching or research assistants. Approximately 145,000 graduate students could be affected by this change, about 60 percent of them from STEM (science, technology, engineering, and math) fields, according a 2011 to 2012 survey by the Department of Education, the most recent data available. It’s hard to say precisely the tax hike for each person, and tuition varies per institution, but, experts suggest students could owe around an additional $2,000 per year or more — which could add up for grad and PhD students who usually take multiple years to complete their studies.
What are tuition waivers, exactly?
If you’re a PhD student right now who works in your university’s lab, you’ll get paid a stipend for that job — but not much. The average annual salary for graduate research assistant, for example, is less than $30,000, according to Glassdoor. There’s also tuition to pay to the institution where you’re getting that PhD.
But since you’re cleaning petri dishes, the university waives that tuition. And based on the qualified-tuition-reduction provision in the tax code, the waived tuition isn’t currently taxed as income.
But the new GOP plan would change that, Steven Bloom of the American Council on Education explained. That tuition, as he put it, “would be taxable income to the graduate student.”
So on top of being taxed on the $30,000 a student earns in the lab, he’ll have to pay taxes on between approximately $20,000 and $30,000 in tuition that the school is covering — effectively taxing an individual on a total of $50,000 to $60,000 annually. For example, that might push an unmarried PhD student who receives a $30,000 stipend and gets $30,000 tuition waiver from the 12 percent tax rate for lowest earners up to the 25 percent tax bracket —even after the increased standard deduction -- in the GOP’s current plan.
(continued)
The bill, in its current form, eliminates or consolidates tax credits used by both graduate and undergraduate students — but those pursuing master’s degrees and PhDs will get hit the hardest by the proposed changes.
One of the most glaring: the possible end of nontaxable tuition waivers for grad students who work as teaching or research assistants. Approximately 145,000 graduate students could be affected by this change, about 60 percent of them from STEM (science, technology, engineering, and math) fields, according a 2011 to 2012 survey by the Department of Education, the most recent data available. It’s hard to say precisely the tax hike for each person, and tuition varies per institution, but, experts suggest students could owe around an additional $2,000 per year or more — which could add up for grad and PhD students who usually take multiple years to complete their studies.
What are tuition waivers, exactly?
If you’re a PhD student right now who works in your university’s lab, you’ll get paid a stipend for that job — but not much. The average annual salary for graduate research assistant, for example, is less than $30,000, according to Glassdoor. There’s also tuition to pay to the institution where you’re getting that PhD.
But since you’re cleaning petri dishes, the university waives that tuition. And based on the qualified-tuition-reduction provision in the tax code, the waived tuition isn’t currently taxed as income.
But the new GOP plan would change that, Steven Bloom of the American Council on Education explained. That tuition, as he put it, “would be taxable income to the graduate student.”
So on top of being taxed on the $30,000 a student earns in the lab, he’ll have to pay taxes on between approximately $20,000 and $30,000 in tuition that the school is covering — effectively taxing an individual on a total of $50,000 to $60,000 annually. For example, that might push an unmarried PhD student who receives a $30,000 stipend and gets $30,000 tuition waiver from the 12 percent tax rate for lowest earners up to the 25 percent tax bracket —even after the increased standard deduction -- in the GOP’s current plan.
(continued)
Finally, how about a little personal story?
Many of my IRL friends work at a carpentry shop that builds custom made cabinets for homes. This is in a very poor town. The owner of the shop owns several other companies, and is very well off. A multi millionaire.
About fifteen miles south of this poor town is a pretty affluent city, and in this city there is a golf course that kids in public schools practice on with their school golf team. Sorry, I'm wrong. There WAS a golf course that children practiced on with their school golf team. The businessman purchased the entire golf course, destroyed all the greens so people wouldn't play on them any more, and is now in the process of turning the clubhouse into a gas station. He stands to make millions of more dollars to line his pockets.
Oh but wait, he's super rich and is making even more money, so surely the conditions at the cabinet shop and the pay will improve, right? Riiiiiiiiiight. Most people make $8 ****ing dollars an hour and are seeing absolutely no raise at all. The working conditions aren't improving either. For this whopping $8 dollars an hour, they get to work with old equipment without safety guards, and people constantly sustain injuries while working. Several people have lost multiple fingers.
These friends of mine go home and live luxory condos like Tim Cook. No, sorry. They live in ****ing trailers down eroded dirt roads. They live in places like this.
Their mobile homes are down roads like this.
So Bobo, I guess you just don't get that throughout the last hundred years, and even more so right now, the super rich of the world have been waging class warfare against the poor and middle class. I recognize this, and I want to see it reversed. Tim Cook says he'll give his fortune away, I'd like to see the poor of the world rise up and make sure that happens.
I want to take all of this
And give it to people like this.
And turn these people
Into these people.
And you infer I'm a ****ing bigot.
Roll, ****ing, eyes.
11-08-2017
, 12:19 AM
11-08-2017
, 12:22 AM
Paradoxically you are, a bit. You can't treat people the way you said you'd do to Trump. And please don't talk about enslaving people and just taking all their property. The Russian revolution and the following horrors come to mind. Gulag? There must be better ways.
I like your compassion for people having it hard, and very hard, though.
I like your compassion for people having it hard, and very hard, though.
Last edited by plaaynde; 11-08-2017 at 12:33 AM.
11-08-2017
, 12:32 AM
ACEG, I read none of your post beyond the first few lines. Do you know why? None of that changes the fact that this is a bigoted statement, which is all that I was saying:
Justifying said bigotry doesn't change what it is.
And no, I didn't imply you were a bigot in any way, shape or form. Your inference was a result of your own (incorrect) perception of my post.
However, as you continue to add evidence, I'm starting to lean that way.
Edit to add: But I did go back and read your post after I wrote the above, as you put a lot of work into it, and it was interesting.
And no, I didn't imply you were a bigot in any way, shape or form. Your inference was a result of your own (incorrect) perception of my post.
However, as you continue to add evidence, I'm starting to lean that way.
Edit to add: But I did go back and read your post after I wrote the above, as you put a lot of work into it, and it was interesting.
11-08-2017
, 12:51 AM
Quote:
Since you are inferring that I, being a radical proponent of defensive class warfare for the poor, against the rich, am a bigot, I'm going to take some time to respond.
Let me ask you something. Throughout history, have we seen the poor enslaving and exploiting the rich, or is it the other way around? It's the other way around. The rich have been enslaving and exploiting the poor for thousands of years, and they continue to do so. They have been the ones waging class warfare against the poor, and it's never going to end.
In the United States, there has been growing economic inequality for a hundred years. Here are some charts you might find interesting, perhaps you've seen them before, perhaps not.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...harder-charts/
http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/16/news...lass/index.htm
So in the US, labor unions have been gutted, corporate profits have been soaring, and instead of that wealth trickling down with new, well paying jobs for Americans, the corporations just outsource and find cheap labor overseas. Here's what that looks like ...
These are pictures of children mining tin in Indonesia for Apple.
http://www.businessinsider.com/secre...norama-2014-12
Ok, so mining tin is dirty, dangerous work. Kids and adults overseas just need to get good factory jobs making products for American corporations! Here's what that looks like.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30548468
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...device-extract
Here's what Foxconn's suicide nets look like.
Of course, Foxconn is a company town where workers not only work for 12 hours a day, but they live there, meet mates, get married and have children, all in the factory. Here's some pictures of the dorms.
Here's some makeshift bunks on what looks to be a production floor of the factory.
I'm sure by now you get the picture of the kind of working and living conditions men, women, and children that make Iphones are subject to. They are clearly exploited, and I consider them to be enslaved by the invisible hand.
So how about Apple CEO, Tim Cook? With all these rough living and working conditions, he's gotta have it kind of rough, right? Actually, no. Tim Cook is super rich, while children die in tin mines to line his pockets, and people kill themselves in the company town that makes his products.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Cook
Well, in any case it's all good because Apple pays their fair share of taxes, right? Right???? Riiiiiiight ....
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41889787
Ok well, we just need some tax reform in America, right? Sure, sounds great! And Trump and his Republican friends are doing just that! It's totally not gonna benefit the super rich, at the expense of the poor and middle class, right? Right??? Riiiiiight ....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetno.../#2741fc3d1099
Well, at least it will be great for education!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f72b8b64d2a0
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...duate-students
Finally, how about a little personal story?
Many of my IRL friends work at a carpentry shop that builds custom made cabinets for homes. This is in a very poor town. The owner of the shop owns several other companies, and is very well off. A multi millionaire.
About fifteen miles south of this poor town is a pretty affluent city, and in this city there is a golf course that kids in public schools practice on with their school golf team. Sorry, I'm wrong. There WAS a golf course that children practiced on with their school golf team. The businessman purchased the entire golf course, destroyed all the greens so people wouldn't play on them any more, and is now in the process of turning the clubhouse into a gas station. He stands to make millions of more dollars to line his pockets.
Oh but wait, he's super rich and is making even more money, so surely the conditions at the cabinet shop and the pay will improve, right? Riiiiiiiiiight. Most people make $8 ****ing dollars an hour and are seeing absolutely no raise at all. The working conditions aren't improving either. For this whopping $8 dollars an hour, they get to work with old equipment without safety guards, and people constantly sustain injuries while working. Several people have lost multiple fingers.
These friends of mine go home and live luxory condos like Tim Cook. No, sorry. They live in ****ing trailers down eroded dirt roads. They live in places like this.
Their mobile homes are down roads like this.
So Bobo, I guess you just don't get that throughout the last hundred years, and even more so right now, the super rich of the world have been waging class warfare against the poor and middle class. I recognize this, and I want to see it reversed. Tim Cook says he'll give his fortune away, I'd like to see the poor of the world rise up and make sure that happens.
I want to take all of this
And give it to people like this.
And turn these people
Into these people.
And you infer I'm a ****ing bigot.
Roll, ****ing, eyes.
Let me ask you something. Throughout history, have we seen the poor enslaving and exploiting the rich, or is it the other way around? It's the other way around. The rich have been enslaving and exploiting the poor for thousands of years, and they continue to do so. They have been the ones waging class warfare against the poor, and it's never going to end.
In the United States, there has been growing economic inequality for a hundred years. Here are some charts you might find interesting, perhaps you've seen them before, perhaps not.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...harder-charts/
http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/16/news...lass/index.htm
So in the US, labor unions have been gutted, corporate profits have been soaring, and instead of that wealth trickling down with new, well paying jobs for Americans, the corporations just outsource and find cheap labor overseas. Here's what that looks like ...
These are pictures of children mining tin in Indonesia for Apple.
http://www.businessinsider.com/secre...norama-2014-12
Ok, so mining tin is dirty, dangerous work. Kids and adults overseas just need to get good factory jobs making products for American corporations! Here's what that looks like.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30548468
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...device-extract
Here's what Foxconn's suicide nets look like.
Of course, Foxconn is a company town where workers not only work for 12 hours a day, but they live there, meet mates, get married and have children, all in the factory. Here's some pictures of the dorms.
Here's some makeshift bunks on what looks to be a production floor of the factory.
I'm sure by now you get the picture of the kind of working and living conditions men, women, and children that make Iphones are subject to. They are clearly exploited, and I consider them to be enslaved by the invisible hand.
So how about Apple CEO, Tim Cook? With all these rough living and working conditions, he's gotta have it kind of rough, right? Actually, no. Tim Cook is super rich, while children die in tin mines to line his pockets, and people kill themselves in the company town that makes his products.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Cook
Well, in any case it's all good because Apple pays their fair share of taxes, right? Right???? Riiiiiiight ....
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41889787
Ok well, we just need some tax reform in America, right? Sure, sounds great! And Trump and his Republican friends are doing just that! It's totally not gonna benefit the super rich, at the expense of the poor and middle class, right? Right??? Riiiiiight ....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetno.../#2741fc3d1099
Well, at least it will be great for education!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f72b8b64d2a0
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...duate-students
Finally, how about a little personal story?
Many of my IRL friends work at a carpentry shop that builds custom made cabinets for homes. This is in a very poor town. The owner of the shop owns several other companies, and is very well off. A multi millionaire.
About fifteen miles south of this poor town is a pretty affluent city, and in this city there is a golf course that kids in public schools practice on with their school golf team. Sorry, I'm wrong. There WAS a golf course that children practiced on with their school golf team. The businessman purchased the entire golf course, destroyed all the greens so people wouldn't play on them any more, and is now in the process of turning the clubhouse into a gas station. He stands to make millions of more dollars to line his pockets.
Oh but wait, he's super rich and is making even more money, so surely the conditions at the cabinet shop and the pay will improve, right? Riiiiiiiiiight. Most people make $8 ****ing dollars an hour and are seeing absolutely no raise at all. The working conditions aren't improving either. For this whopping $8 dollars an hour, they get to work with old equipment without safety guards, and people constantly sustain injuries while working. Several people have lost multiple fingers.
These friends of mine go home and live luxory condos like Tim Cook. No, sorry. They live in ****ing trailers down eroded dirt roads. They live in places like this.
Their mobile homes are down roads like this.
So Bobo, I guess you just don't get that throughout the last hundred years, and even more so right now, the super rich of the world have been waging class warfare against the poor and middle class. I recognize this, and I want to see it reversed. Tim Cook says he'll give his fortune away, I'd like to see the poor of the world rise up and make sure that happens.
I want to take all of this
And give it to people like this.
And turn these people
Into these people.
And you infer I'm a ****ing bigot.
Roll, ****ing, eyes.
11-08-2017
, 12:59 AM
11-08-2017
, 01:40 AM
Quote:
Since you are inferring that I, being a radical proponent of defensive class warfare for the poor, against the rich, am a bigot, I'm going to take some time to respond.
Let me ask you something. Throughout history, have we seen the poor enslaving and exploiting the rich, or is it the other way around? It's the other way around. The rich have been enslaving and exploiting the poor for thousands of years, and they continue to do so. They have been the ones waging class warfare against the poor, and it's never going to end.
In the United States, there has been growing economic inequality for a hundred years. Here are some charts you might find interesting, perhaps you've seen them before, perhaps not.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...harder-charts/
http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/16/news...lass/index.htm
So in the US, labor unions have been gutted, corporate profits have been soaring, and instead of that wealth trickling down with new, well paying jobs for Americans, the corporations just outsource and find cheap labor overseas. Here's what that looks like ...
These are pictures of children mining tin in Indonesia for Apple.
http://www.businessinsider.com/secre...norama-2014-12
Ok, so mining tin is dirty, dangerous work. Kids and adults overseas just need to get good factory jobs making products for American corporations! Here's what that looks like.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30548468
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...device-extract
Here's what Foxconn's suicide nets look like.
Of course, Foxconn is a company town where workers not only work for 12 hours a day, but they live there, meet mates, get married and have children, all in the factory. Here's some pictures of the dorms.
Here's some makeshift bunks on what looks to be a production floor of the factory.
I'm sure by now you get the picture of the kind of working and living conditions men, women, and children that make Iphones are subject to. They are clearly exploited, and I consider them to be enslaved by the invisible hand.
So how about Apple CEO, Tim Cook? With all these rough living and working conditions, he's gotta have it kind of rough, right? Actually, no. Tim Cook is super rich, while children die in tin mines to line his pockets, and people kill themselves in the company town that makes his products.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Cook
Well, in any case it's all good because Apple pays their fair share of taxes, right? Right???? Riiiiiiight ....
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41889787
Ok well, we just need some tax reform in America, right? Sure, sounds great! And Trump and his Republican friends are doing just that! It's totally not gonna benefit the super rich, at the expense of the poor and middle class, right? Right??? Riiiiiight ....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetno.../#2741fc3d1099
Well, at least it will be great for education!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f72b8b64d2a0
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...duate-students
Finally, how about a little personal story?
Many of my IRL friends work at a carpentry shop that builds custom made cabinets for homes. This is in a very poor town. The owner of the shop owns several other companies, and is very well off. A multi millionaire.
About fifteen miles south of this poor town is a pretty affluent city, and in this city there is a golf course that kids in public schools practice on with their school golf team. Sorry, I'm wrong. There WAS a golf course that children practiced on with their school golf team. The businessman purchased the entire golf course, destroyed all the greens so people wouldn't play on them any more, and is now in the process of turning the clubhouse into a gas station. He stands to make millions of more dollars to line his pockets.
Oh but wait, he's super rich and is making even more money, so surely the conditions at the cabinet shop and the pay will improve, right? Riiiiiiiiiight. Most people make $8 ****ing dollars an hour and are seeing absolutely no raise at all. The working conditions aren't improving either. For this whopping $8 dollars an hour, they get to work with old equipment without safety guards, and people constantly sustain injuries while working. Several people have lost multiple fingers.
These friends of mine go home and live luxory condos like Tim Cook. No, sorry. They live in ****ing trailers down eroded dirt roads. They live in places like this.
Their mobile homes are down roads like this.
So Bobo, I guess you just don't get that throughout the last hundred years, and even more so right now, the super rich of the world have been waging class warfare against the poor and middle class. I recognize this, and I want to see it reversed. Tim Cook says he'll give his fortune away, I'd like to see the poor of the world rise up and make sure that happens.
I want to take all of this
And give it to people like this.
And turn these people
Into these people.
And you infer I'm a ****ing bigot.
Roll, ****ing, eyes.
Let me ask you something. Throughout history, have we seen the poor enslaving and exploiting the rich, or is it the other way around? It's the other way around. The rich have been enslaving and exploiting the poor for thousands of years, and they continue to do so. They have been the ones waging class warfare against the poor, and it's never going to end.
In the United States, there has been growing economic inequality for a hundred years. Here are some charts you might find interesting, perhaps you've seen them before, perhaps not.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...harder-charts/
http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/16/news...lass/index.htm
So in the US, labor unions have been gutted, corporate profits have been soaring, and instead of that wealth trickling down with new, well paying jobs for Americans, the corporations just outsource and find cheap labor overseas. Here's what that looks like ...
These are pictures of children mining tin in Indonesia for Apple.
http://www.businessinsider.com/secre...norama-2014-12
Ok, so mining tin is dirty, dangerous work. Kids and adults overseas just need to get good factory jobs making products for American corporations! Here's what that looks like.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30548468
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...device-extract
Here's what Foxconn's suicide nets look like.
Of course, Foxconn is a company town where workers not only work for 12 hours a day, but they live there, meet mates, get married and have children, all in the factory. Here's some pictures of the dorms.
Here's some makeshift bunks on what looks to be a production floor of the factory.
I'm sure by now you get the picture of the kind of working and living conditions men, women, and children that make Iphones are subject to. They are clearly exploited, and I consider them to be enslaved by the invisible hand.
So how about Apple CEO, Tim Cook? With all these rough living and working conditions, he's gotta have it kind of rough, right? Actually, no. Tim Cook is super rich, while children die in tin mines to line his pockets, and people kill themselves in the company town that makes his products.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Cook
Well, in any case it's all good because Apple pays their fair share of taxes, right? Right???? Riiiiiiight ....
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41889787
Ok well, we just need some tax reform in America, right? Sure, sounds great! And Trump and his Republican friends are doing just that! It's totally not gonna benefit the super rich, at the expense of the poor and middle class, right? Right??? Riiiiiight ....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetno.../#2741fc3d1099
Well, at least it will be great for education!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f72b8b64d2a0
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...duate-students
Finally, how about a little personal story?
Many of my IRL friends work at a carpentry shop that builds custom made cabinets for homes. This is in a very poor town. The owner of the shop owns several other companies, and is very well off. A multi millionaire.
About fifteen miles south of this poor town is a pretty affluent city, and in this city there is a golf course that kids in public schools practice on with their school golf team. Sorry, I'm wrong. There WAS a golf course that children practiced on with their school golf team. The businessman purchased the entire golf course, destroyed all the greens so people wouldn't play on them any more, and is now in the process of turning the clubhouse into a gas station. He stands to make millions of more dollars to line his pockets.
Oh but wait, he's super rich and is making even more money, so surely the conditions at the cabinet shop and the pay will improve, right? Riiiiiiiiiight. Most people make $8 ****ing dollars an hour and are seeing absolutely no raise at all. The working conditions aren't improving either. For this whopping $8 dollars an hour, they get to work with old equipment without safety guards, and people constantly sustain injuries while working. Several people have lost multiple fingers.
These friends of mine go home and live luxory condos like Tim Cook. No, sorry. They live in ****ing trailers down eroded dirt roads. They live in places like this.
Their mobile homes are down roads like this.
So Bobo, I guess you just don't get that throughout the last hundred years, and even more so right now, the super rich of the world have been waging class warfare against the poor and middle class. I recognize this, and I want to see it reversed. Tim Cook says he'll give his fortune away, I'd like to see the poor of the world rise up and make sure that happens.
I want to take all of this
And give it to people like this.
And turn these people
Into these people.
And you infer I'm a ****ing bigot.
Roll, ****ing, eyes.
