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12-05-2017 , 06:09 PM

#1026

Victor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 71,953

Quote:

Originally Posted by prana

I don’t even get how me laughing at adios equates to me crying and being an anti Semite. Amazing stuff as always adios.

hes been calling everyone an anti-semite. its really weird.

12-05-2017 , 06:13 PM

#1027

BroadwaySushy

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 3,237

Well, you've been calling everyone a nazi.

12-05-2017 , 06:15 PM

#1028

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

We all saw what happened the last time there was a market for a politics forum with well named moderating.

Uh, you posted in it frequently?

12-05-2017 , 06:17 PM

#1029

Morphismus

BBV Poker Player of 2022

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 24,271

12-05-2017 , 06:18 PM

#1030

Sammy2bullets

Property of Bobo Fett

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 12,365

Calm down

12-05-2017 , 06:22 PM

#1031

Morphismus

BBV Poker Player of 2022

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 24,271

12-05-2017 , 06:25 PM

#1032

Victor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 71,953

well, when you defend nazis like gorka, and blame victims of neo nazis for violence, I tend to make the connection.

in other words, if it walks, talks, and acts like it...

12-05-2017 , 06:32 PM

#1033

Original Position

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,426

Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

Yes, I am aware of those things. They were all clearly mentioned in the link I posted. I didn't claim Tablet was anti-Semitic, the Atlantic piece claimed that article was.

Fair enough. I'll direct my criticism to those who did make that claim then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

You can google "tablet magazine right wing" if you would like to find others who feel Tablet has an extremely hawkish, far right approach to Israel and the Middle East, among other criticisms.

Do you also consider The New Republic a far right publication?

12-05-2017 , 06:35 PM

#1034

BroadwaySushy

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 3,237

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

well, when you defend nazis like gorka, and blame victims of neo nazis for violence, I tend to make the connection.

in other words, if it walks, talks, and acts like it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FJS

Spoiler:

12-05-2017 , 07:17 PM

#1035

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy

Well, you've been calling everyone a nazi.

Prove it

12-05-2017 , 07:25 PM

#1036

BroadwaySushy

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 3,237

NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN....

12-05-2017 , 07:29 PM

#1037

Morphismus

BBV Poker Player of 2022

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 24,271

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy

Well, you've been calling everyone a nazi.

Wait, he hasn't called me a nazi. You're wrong!

Last edited by Morphismus; 12-05-2017 at 07:30 PM. Reason: How can this be? :(

12-05-2017 , 07:40 PM

#1038

formula72

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,315

I really wish I knew what the culprit was that led you people to this lifestyle. Maybe Well Named has the answer.

12-05-2017 , 07:46 PM

#1039

Morphismus

BBV Poker Player of 2022

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 24,271

12-05-2017 , 08:53 PM

#1040

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,734

12-05-2017 , 08:59 PM

#1041

Jbrochu

banned

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,054

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

hes been calling everyone an anti-semite. its really weird.

Notice how we just laugh at him when he does it?

Wonder why those people we call bigots and racists don't laugh it off? Hmmm.

12-05-2017 , 10:13 PM

#1042

zikzak

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,199

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

Do you also consider The New Republic a far right publication?

No, although some of their stances fall far from their liberal reputation, especially their support of the Iraq war. But that's a far cry from Tablet's background.

Tablet was founded and is almost entirely supported by Nextbook. Nextbook was founded and is currently run by people clearly on the far right, at least when it comes to Israel.

The funding for Nextbook comes from Elaine Bernstein and her late husband's estate. Here's one recent op-ed featuring her:
A Major Jewish Philanthropist Just Published A Plan To Ethnically Cleanse Palestinians

Nextboox's executive director is Morton Landowne, a Modern Orthodox who "has close ties to the West Bank settlement of Efrat and Shlomo Riskin, Efrat’s founding rabbi. Landowne serves as vice-president of Ohr Torah Stone educational institutions—a series of yeshivas, post-high school, and post-graduate programs located almost exclusively over the Green Line. Similarly, the Tikvah Fund, which publishes the Jewish Review of Books, runs a leadership institute in the West Bank settlement of Alon."

Nextbook's Editorial Director is Jonathan Harris. He was an assistant policy director for AIPAC. His work has been published almost exclusively in far-right media like National Review and The Washington Times. He was a editor for Campus Watch.

Whether you agree or disagree with the organizations and positions associated with these people, it is inarguable that they represent viewpoints far outside mainstream US and Jewish-American opinion, and are also well to the right of most Israeli opinion. It would be naive to think that editorial POV does not also carry over to Tablet.

12-06-2017 , 12:08 AM

#1043

bundy5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8,137

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

So you refuse to prove it and demand that others do your intellectual work for you?

Definitely see a need for another politics forum now!

You want me to prove how I think BS contributes 1% of that need and I pointed to his contribution to P7 being about 1%. No wonder this proves my point that most of your calls for links for people to back up their arguments is unnecessary.

12-06-2017 , 12:11 AM

#1044

bundy5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8,137

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

Mostly what I was referring to is that there is some strong opposition to the idea, and more opposition than support.

Zooming out a little bit, to me there are basically two ideas which I'm trying to reconcile in my mind:

1) The idea that the main politics forum is in some ways unsatisfactory to some people. I'm sympathetic to this idea, at least to some extent. Not that I agree with every criticism everyone makes. But I've agreed that it's a bit of an echo chamber, although I think this is down as much to the regs as to modding and it's not clear to me that modding changes really matter much to this. I've also said that it seems like a mistake to try to change it by force. That's one of the reasons a second forum seems like an interesting idea.

2) The point that the overwhelming majority of people who actively complain about the main forum, and the overwhelming majority of non-main-forum-regs who participated in P7 (edit: and some of the main-forum-regs who participated also :P), are reliably bad posters and so a forum which caters to them will be reliably bad. This isn't really a counter-argument to (1), but it's a pretty good argument against opening a new forum. I agree that a lot of the people in question are bad posters and are likely to continue being pretty bad. I don't have a great answer for anyone asking me why I would expect to get a different result or attract new people. There are other problems people have with the idea of a new forum, but this is the one that's a sticking point for me personally.

From my own experience, and some reasonable inference, I think it's certainly the case that there are some people who have complaints about the main forum, or who avoid it, but who do not participate actively in the usual ATF threads, precisely because they are not as bad of posters as the people who do. I've read at least some large handful of comments in that direction over the last several years. Maybe lattimer is an example, given his comment earlier in this thread, I don't know for sure. But I also don't know whether any or enough people like that would be interested in a new forum, and it's not surprising that the very tangible and direct case of all the bad P7 posters is more compelling to people as an argument against the new forum than the hypothetical where there's some group of good politics posters who don't like the main forum but also don't see/participate in these threads.

So, when I try to sum it up, I end up with the most likely outcome in the scenario where we open a new forum being that there's a fairly small but loud group of people strongly opposed to it, a fairly small but reliably bad group of posters posting in it, and also probably testing the moderation and providing plenty of ammunition for the opposition, and a very very questionable chance of getting past that stage. There's no doubt that I'll continue to disagree with some of the reasons people have for opposing a new forum, but it seems like a moot point if a new forum is unlikely to succeed for the reasons above, which I find difficult to dispute. And I wonder if my sympathy for (1) really justifies the effort, or if I just get bored and am looking for some attention.

Seems to me that I need to look elsewhere for this moderator for a new forum if you aren't willing to do the hard yards. There will always be that small group protesting against it and trying to bring it down but it is up to the moderators to deal with that and I was hoping that you were the person to rise to that occasion but obviously my faith in you has been misplaced.

12-06-2017 , 12:16 AM

#1045

bundy5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8,137

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenC

I don't think much of this is on the regs either. My suspicion is that with enough time, every forum about politics will eventually settle into an equilibrium that can be described as an echo chamber. Given that the influx of new posters has died down on this site this process will speed up with the potential new forum. Two most realistic options would be:
1) It's a dead forum
2) After goofy tires of dunking on fools, the echo chamber will be such that it is unwanted by both you and Mat. You will be going on lots of vacations hoping to get an excuse to shut it down.

Maybe it's possible that you have attached your ego to this project. Not saying you have a unhealthy ego, if anything, you seem like the under-promise over-deliver type of guy. Though the combination of Mat's unconditional support with everyone else telling you it's a bad idea, the plot has the makings of a bad sports movie with a cinderella ending. It would be really cool to prove everyone wrong but maybe you're overestimating the chances of its success as a result.

Given that Sushy still seems to read Alpha and would clearly enjoy the attention from all the regs, my suggestion to every exiled person would be to PM Wookie and ask for a reversal of the exile . Alpha (justifiably?) has its issue with right-wingers but I don't think the mods are vindictive *******s.
Best case scenario: It gets reversed, formerly exiled posters change to abide to the rules, last a couple of months before the inevitable meltdown.
Middle of the road scenario: The mods will respectfully decline your appeal for a second chance.
Worst case scenario: They will tell you to go **** yourself. To which you can present the exchange here and show everyone how the mods in Alpha reply to polite PMs.

Obviously you have had very little experience with wookie to think that this would work.

12-06-2017 , 02:48 AM

#1046

Original Position

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,426

Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

No, although some of their stances fall far from their liberal reputation, especially their support of the Iraq war. But that's a far cry from Tablet's background.

Marty Peretz, who owned The New Republic and had a regular column in it, was a bigot.

Quote:

Tablet was founded and is almost entirely supported by Nextbook. Nextbook was founded and is currently run by people clearly on the far right, at least when it comes to Israel.

The funding for Nextbook comes from Elaine Bernstein and her late husband's estate. Here's one recent op-ed featuring her:
A Major Jewish Philanthropist Just Published A Plan To Ethnically Cleanse Palestinians

Nextboox's executive director is Morton Landowne, a Modern Orthodox who "has close ties to the West Bank settlement of Efrat and Shlomo Riskin, Efrat’s founding rabbi. Landowne serves as vice-president of Ohr Torah Stone educational institutions—a series of yeshivas, post-high school, and post-graduate programs located almost exclusively over the Green Line. Similarly, the Tikvah Fund, which publishes the Jewish Review of Books, runs a leadership institute in the West Bank settlement of Alon."

Nextbook's Editorial Director is Jonathan Harris. He was an assistant policy director for AIPAC. His work has been published almost exclusively in far-right media like National Review and The Washington Times. He was a editor for Campus Watch.

Whether you agree or disagree with the organizations and positions associated with these people, it is inarguable that they represent viewpoints far outside mainstream US and Jewish-American opinion, and are also well to the right of most Israeli opinion. It would be naive to think that editorial POV does not also carry over to Tablet.

Tablet is a magazine. The best way to know if it is far-right is to just read it. It is pretty obvious from going through the top few pages and glancing through the archives that they are not a far right magazine, even if they take a few right-wing positions. For instance, their coverage of Hillary was relatively positive, and their coverage of Trump was generally negative. I haven't seen anything that I'd consider outside the US mainstream or Jewish-American opinion. To some extent we have a different idea of what "far-right" means, as I wouldn't consider National Review far right either.

More relevantly, James Kirchick, who wrote the piece BroadwaySushy linked to, has been published everywhere (unfortunately imo).

12-06-2017 , 03:40 AM

#1047

R*R

I wish I was Einstein

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,753

I figure most posters in this thread think this song is about them, about them, about them....

12-06-2017 , 03:45 AM

#1048

JohnyCrash

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,537

All you need to do is make a new forum with a disclaimer saying the opinions within are not the sites and Bobs your Uncle. Also disallow posters from Politics to complain about new forum in ATF and no more headaches.