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Old 10-13-2017, 03:08 AM   #26
R*R
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

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Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
Ok, little tyrants quoting play kritarchs.

There's a serious question here though. Do you think this furthers the public discourse? Or are you just a little play Torquemada using a Barbie-doll breaking wheel, with some unfortunate, albeit limited, real world collateral damage?
Blah blah blah
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:23 AM   #27
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
OK. They aren't, and I'm not justifying a stance, but thanks for the tip.
Actually, I'll walk back the last sentence I posted and respond to this.

I hope that you are justifying a stance, the stance of the forum towards posting rules.

If you aren't, you're admitting that the moderation here is not merely tyrannical but despotic too. You're admitting the purpose of the forum's moderation is to fulfill the mods' own whimsically sadistic will to power.

Even the most brutal tyrants have a narrative, a public justification of their stances or policies. A despot may carelessly forego even that.
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:25 AM   #28
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

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Blah blah blah
A real zinger. Speaking of stereotypes...
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:32 AM   #29
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

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A real zinger. Speaking of stereotypes...

Predictable.
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:38 AM   #30
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

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Predictable.
Uh huh. Let me distill the burning question for you, since you seemed to have missed it. Do you think your actions are furthering the public discourse? Do you care?
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:45 AM   #31
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

This is what I'm not missing:

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Originally Posted by R*R View Post


The rule for you is that if you ever speak of race in NVG or post what I feel is a racist comment you will be banned for a long period of time and you will be forever banished from posting in NVG.
Take your discourse to a forum where someone might care.
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Old 10-13-2017, 04:04 AM   #32
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

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Originally Posted by R*R View Post
This is what I'm not missing:
To which I responded, you missed, then proceeded to miss the punchline a second time, as you've missed most of what I've said to you so far as we've attempted to communicate (you think I would have learned by now, but, then again, I wouldn't exactly say I was talking to you in particular).

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Take your discourse to a forum where someone might care
And I wonder why no one left here may care? I remember the level of discourse in NVG, even in 2014. There were a lot of quality threads with multi-K posters making strong and provocative arguments. There wasn't some 3 and a half day old post on page one with the only halfway decent convo getting locked by dilettante mods.

Your speaking for the entire remaining readership is hysterically presumptuous. However, I speak truthfully for myself when I say that I don't care what you do or how you run your business, as stated. I care about enlightening those who are capable of seeing the truth, but not enough to spend much more time here.

I'm just a bird of prey, after all, like so many among your disaffected readership.

So eat, drink and get fat for us.
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Old 10-13-2017, 04:28 AM   #33
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

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Since racism is a bannable offense we can conclude that it is commensurate with a sort of misdemeanor crime. A definition that is as clear as the way in which any misdemeanor is defined would be a decent standard. For example, malicious destruction of property is a misdemeanor with both a legal definition and understood context. Transgressions, public or private, should ideally be defined with enough objectivity so that any reasonable person of good character would tend towards the same course of action when faced with the circumstances where the opportunity to commit the alleged offense arose.
No, we really can't make such a conclusion. Banning someone from a privately run forum is not even remotely related to a misdemeanor crime.

There's really no need for an analogy at all here. If you are banned from the site, it's much like a business' right to refuse service. In fact, that's exactly what it is. And they don't need to have a reason for doing so, as long as it isn't being done for discriminatory reasons. Now, you can argue that doing so might be bad for the business, and in some cases you would be correct.

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Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
Sure. Master3004, someone who is obviously quite ignorant on this subject, to put it charitably, proposed that a good definition of racism is "I know it when I see it." He was alluding to Associate Justice Potter Stewart's decision in Jacobellis vs Ohio. I was not familiar with the outcome of that case and asked the question as to its resolution innocently, though I suspected what it looked like.

A Kritarch is a judge who rules a people by judicial decree. A kritarchy is the rule by judges. It is a particularly odious form of tyranny because a diffusion or a class of judges is not responsive to the people in the way that a genuine tyrant would be.
I must apologize for not being clear enough, and having you explain the context and definitions, which I understood. It's the sentence itself that makes no sense to me:

Quote:
Ok, little tyrants quoting play kritarchs.
I assume "little tyrants" refers to mods. Where does quoting come into it?

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Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
Actually, I'll walk back the last sentence I posted and respond to this.

I hope that you are justifying a stance, the stance of the forum towards posting rules.
What does this mean? The stance of the forum towards posting rules is that we have posting rules, and mods are permitted to enforce them. Is there something more that you're seeking?

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Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
If you aren't, you're admitting that the moderation here is not merely tyrannical but despotic too. You're admitting the purpose of the forum's moderation is to fulfill the mods' own whimsically sadistic will to power.
No, I'm simply having a conversation and trying to provide you with some clarity. But I suspect that I'm actually being trolled. Oh well, wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.
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Old 10-13-2017, 04:53 AM   #34
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
No, we really can't make such a conclusion. Banning someone from a privately run forum is not even remotely related to a misdemeanor crime.
It seems self-evidently reasonable to me that a minor offense against a fair minded proprietor of a business - particularly one trading in information, especially news that is purportedly meant to inform - should be held to the same clarity of definition as a minor offense against the public. You think it's not? Common Law, the entire basis of the Western legal system, sprang from the days of feudalism and absolute monarchy, when all the lords' and kings' subjects were their respective property and the land their business.

Yes, there's massively ample precedent to say that the clarity of definition for one should be commensurate with the other.

Quote:
If you are banned from the site, it's much like a business' right to refuse service. In fact, that's exactly what it is. And they don't need to have a reason for doing so, as long as it isn't being done for discriminatory reasons. Now, you can argue that doing so might be bad for the business, and in some cases you would be correct.
I preemptively agreed with this statement multiple times, including in pm's with mods and this thread.


Quote:
I assume "little tyrants" refers to mods. Where does quoting come into it?

He's directly quoting the would-be klitarch Potter Stewart. Why do I call him a klitarch? Because he is a tyrant with no deference to the law who rules by whim.

Quote:
What does this mean? The stance of the forum towards posting rules is that we have posting rules, and mods are permitted to enforce them. Is there something more that you're seeking?
Yes, coherence or, if nothing else, at at least a minimally objective standard.

I'm not saying you are forced to do this in any way, as stated. I'm saying it is the right thing for a fair minded proprietor and his business to do.

Last edited by JudgeHoldem1848; 10-13-2017 at 05:04 AM.
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Old 10-13-2017, 05:08 AM   #35
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

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Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
It seems self-evidently reasonable to me that a minor offense against a fair minded proprietor of a business - particularly one trading in information, especially news that is purportedly meant to inform - should bear the same standard of proof as a minor offense against the public, decided by a fair minded jury or judge. You think it's not?
Correct. I do not believe that a forum needs to bear the same standard of proof to ban someone's posting account than a jury or judge does to convict someone of a criminal misdemeanor. I feel silly even typing this out, as it just makes me more sure I'm being trolled.

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Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
I preemptively agreed with this statement multiple times, including in pm's with mods and this thread.
Excellent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
He's directly quoting the would-be klitarch Potter Stewart. Why do I call him a klitarch? Because he is a tyrant with no deference to the law who rules by whim.
OK, thanks. I understand where the confusion was. The person who originally provided the quote wasn't a mod, so I don't believe there is a tyrant quoting a play kritarch. But I understand you now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
Yes, coherence or, if nothing else, at at least a minimally objective standard.

I'm not saying you are forced to do this in any way, as stated. I'm saying it is the right thing for a fair minded proprietor and his business to do.
I don't think you're going to get anything more coherent than racist posts aren't permitted.
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:33 AM   #36
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

This might be the most convoluted defense of "cuz blacks" I've ever seen.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:11 AM   #37
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean Paul-Sartre


Just ban him. You're getting played for fools.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:48 AM   #38
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

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Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
It's strange how we managed to get this far in a thread where a clear and serious question was asked and there's not yet a single straight answer.

Let me ask it again. Can I have a clarification of the NVG rules regarding racism, since it is apparently a bannable offense?

You can publish our whole exchange if you want. I gathered your opinion wasn't much different from the anti-porn activist's above.

I guess the non-answer from all the green posters here is itself a sort of answer.

Little tyrants quoting play kritarchs it is then.
Lol anit-porn activist. Spin, baby, spin!
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:06 AM   #39
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

This guy sure does like him some adjectives.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:45 AM   #40
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Just banning everybody who uses Steve Sailer or his friend David Duke (or any other holocaust denier) to try to prove their point might be an easy solution.
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:58 PM   #41
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

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Originally Posted by zikzak View Post
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean Paul-Sartre


Just ban him. You're getting played for fools.
This is a good post.

I'm completely open to the idea that blacks, Mexicans, whites, or even Asians are the root of all evil. But the guy in the OP isn't very good at providing evidence for it.
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:46 PM   #42
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Op, you are racist because you think race. And race doesn't exist. Only individuals and the whole society does.

Posting racist is at least trolling, often worse.
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Old 10-14-2017, 07:10 AM   #43
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Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

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Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
Master3004, someone who is obviously quite ignorant on this subject, to put charitably, proposed that a good definition of racism is "I know it when I see it." He was alluding to Associate Justice Potter Stewart's decision in Jacobellis vs Ohio. I was not familiar with the outcome of that case and asked the question as to its resolution innocently, though I suspected what it looked like.
Somehow the list of things OP has time to research on his own time includes all sorts of race “realism” nonsense, but excludes SCOTUS decisions. Leave that for other people.
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