Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

About the Forums Here's where you post suggestions about the forums and the software that implements them.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2017, 04:05 AM   #1
JudgeHoldem1848
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,442
Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

I was recently temp banned by a mod after posting content in NVG that was deemed racist. The post in question was a straightforward and dry statement of uncontroversial facts that were linked to, as I recall, by three inline text links. The sources I linked to were without fault and I would be happy to back that up against anyone who would argue otherwise.

As stated in my correspondence with the mod in question, I recognize the right of twoplustwo management to run its business however it sees fit, without qualification. But there should be transparency in the community standards of any honest company that trades in information. What's more, from what I've read by them, I believe that Mr. Sklansky and Mr. Malmuth would both very likely agree with that statement.

If racism is a bannable offense, then we should have a common definition to work off of. If certain subjects are to be recognized as taboo, and the forum is not a place for free inquiry, then it should be known what those taboos are. Let's codify it, anything else isn't really transparent or honest.

If NVG would like to ban all discussion or even mention of race, that's absolutely fine. But it is only fair to be transparent about it so that those reading can make the mental adjustment that such a benighting blind spot requires. Lying by omission, after all, is far more egregious than speaking outright falsehoods because it is so much harder to detect.

That's even truer for subjects that are systematically lied about, because many readers simply lack the tools to discern reality. And it was the gradual correction of this that was precisely the point of the post that got me banned.
JudgeHoldem1848 is offline  
Old 10-11-2017, 04:42 AM   #2
Bobo Fett
2+2 Ad Man
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 45,605
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
uncontroversial facts
LOL.

Quote:
Yeah, the guy was dumping drum mags wide open out of a fully auto AK. Sure pass some more laws, the 23rd one he breaks within a minute might get him to stop and think, "Hmmm, should I really be doing this?"

This is a bad grunch, but anyone from Europe, and an unfortunate majority within the U.S., need to understand the the entire American "gun problem" is due to blacks and to a much lesser degree, hispanics, accessing highly effective instruments of death and mayhem, then using them with stereotypical impulsivity.

Once you disaggregate the data, white Americans are no more likely to kill each other with fire arms than Swedes are. Steve Sailer has written extensively about this. The entire "gun debate" in the United States is framed by childless urban progressives who are scared s***less of the blacks who menace them with a Seth Rich-style demise on every bar-night stroll home.

But these progressives are scared, even more than by death itself, of having to name the unnamable - black crime - as the source of their deepest and well-justified fears. So they pretend that we're living in some alternate universe where white men in hoods with long rifles are going around shooting up liquor stores from the back of lifted, stars and bars flying pick ups.

But those white gun owners, rural and not, don't actually give a blown head gasket about the infested bed urban Blue Staters have made for themselves. They can sh** in it they can sleep in it, say the rednecks. These people are serious, numerous and won't tolerate their means of self defense, which they are generally quite proficient with, being taken away and leaving them at the mercy of their existential enemies.

The more observant powers that be understand this dynamic, sensibly want to avoid civil war and so the "gun problem" will not be solved, as it has not been since it first became the "gun problem", circa 1970.
Probably best to stick to the facts in a post where you want to talk about honesty and transparency. Or do you actually believe that post is uncontroversial?
Bobo Fett is offline  
Old 10-11-2017, 06:20 AM   #3
Mr.mmmKay
Drugs are bad...
 
Mr.mmmKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 13,729
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

lol
Mr.mmmKay is offline  
Old 10-11-2017, 08:13 AM   #4
master3004
Revisionist Historian
 
master3004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Obstruct Everything
Posts: 47,862
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Holy racist ****post Batman.

For universal definitions, we can start with #1: if you blame the entirety of a very complex problem that affects the entire country on a single race, your post is probably super racist.

Or we could use the old pornography definition "I know it when I see it."
master3004 is online now  
Old 10-11-2017, 08:42 AM   #5
gregorio
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 28,593
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Lol indeed.
gregorio is offline  
Old 10-11-2017, 09:45 AM   #6
madlex
Custom User Title
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,423
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Not sure if "uncontroversial" means what you think it means.
madlex is offline  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:17 AM   #7
Neil S
King of the sidebar
 
Neil S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 18,093
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Steve Sailer is open as a 'race realist.' If you're linking to him you're not allowed to claim you're not racist.
Neil S is offline  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:48 AM   #8
Trolly McTrollson
Under your bridges
 
Trolly McTrollson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Winesburg, Ohio
Posts: 21,360
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

That seems sorta racist imho.
Trolly McTrollson is offline  
Old 10-11-2017, 11:17 AM   #9
plaaynde
Poker Historian
 
plaaynde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Local Group
Posts: 15,876
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Looks you sucked bad time, op.
plaaynde is offline  
Old 10-11-2017, 01:21 PM   #10
Loki
Formerly Noodle Wazlib
 
Loki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Participating in buffoonery
Posts: 11,590
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Not reading all that, don’t know what thread it’s from, but is OP blaming the black menace for the Vegas shooting? Or is something else going on there?
Loki is offline  
Old 10-11-2017, 03:22 PM   #11
R*R
Painting It Black
 
R*R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Not Backsliding a Fragile Moment
Posts: 7,465
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

And there was also this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
I wouldn't expect any European to know this but the reason American gun homicide rates are 6-7 times that of European countries is because of the presence of blacks, and to a much lesser extent, Mexicans and Central Americans.
So I gave you 6 days. A pittance.

Next time you are probably gone for good.
R*R is offline  
Old 10-11-2017, 04:53 PM   #12
master3004
Revisionist Historian
 
master3004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Obstruct Everything
Posts: 47,862
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib View Post
Not reading all that, don’t know what thread it’s from, but is OP blaming the black menace for the Vegas shooting? Or is something else going on there?
He's blaming all gun violence on blacks and mexicans.
master3004 is online now  
Old 10-11-2017, 05:02 PM   #13
madlex
Custom User Title
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,423
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004 View Post
He's blaming all gun violence on blacks and mexicans.
Not true. (To a much lesser extent) Central Americans are also to blame, in his opinion. He's also blaming (white) childless urban progressives, but I'm not totally sure for what.
madlex is offline  
Old 10-11-2017, 06:49 PM   #14
Tuma
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Tuma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,080
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"
That which is racially insensitive. Not limited to exploratory diatribes that are aggressive, or deflect to another source.
Tuma is offline  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:43 PM   #15
niss
Pencil-Necked Geek
 
niss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 15,568
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004 View Post
He's blaming all gun violence on blacks and mexicans.
Isn't this true? With Trinidad winning and Mexico losing, people were shooting other people left and right last night.

Oh wait, I forgot, Americans don't care about soccer. Never mind.
niss is offline  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:22 AM   #16
JudgeHoldem1848
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,442
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
LOL.


Probably best to stick to the facts in a post where you want to talk about honesty and transparency. Or do you actually believe that post is uncontroversial?
I could have worded this thread's OP more clearly, but the uncontroversial facts I was alluding to were the ones in the (two) inline links regarding race - the reason given for my temp ban and the reason for creating this thread.

While the first post contained speculation about the events in Las Vegas and strident descriptions of left-leaning blue city residents, the second post, which, as I understand it, was the one that basically got me banned, was a straightforward description of sociological reality in the U.S.
JudgeHoldem1848 is offline  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:55 AM   #17
JudgeHoldem1848
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,442
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

There's very little in the way of substance so far in the responses. Here's the creme of a failed crop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil S View Post
Steve Sailer is open as a 'race realist.' If you're linking to him you're not allowed to claim you're not racist.
From what you're saying, it follows that Steve Sailer is racist and that anyone linking to or restating positions that could be construed as race realist is also racist, and anything they write in that mode is also racist.

Ok, that's not a great definition, but it's the best one offered so far in this thread. Can I assume this is the definition we're using, since no one else even really bothered to answer the question asked in the OP?


Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
Or we could use the old pornography definition "I know it when I see it."
Cool. But that makes you a tyrant quoting a kritarch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuma
That which is racially insensitive. Not limited to exploratory diatribes that are aggressive, or deflect to another source.
You may recall from elementary school that it's bad form to use the word or concept being defined or any variant of it in its own definition.

But if you still want to go with that, it's not substantially different from the argument quoted above. What happened with that case, anyway?

******************************************

Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004 View Post
He's blaming all gun violence on blacks and mexicans.
Could you explain how you arrived at that conclusion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R*R View Post



So I gave you 6 days. A pittance.

Next time you are probably gone for good.

I'm in the bad habit of occasionally drunk posting strat here. You would probably be doing me and a few other people a big favor.
JudgeHoldem1848 is offline  
Old 10-13-2017, 01:30 AM   #18
R*R
Painting It Black
 
R*R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Not Backsliding a Fragile Moment
Posts: 7,465
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post

I'm in the bad habit of occasionally drunk posting strat here. You would probably be doing me and a few other people a big favor.
Yeah be careful because I hate bad strat.

Stay safe.
R*R is offline  
Old 10-13-2017, 01:46 AM   #19
JudgeHoldem1848
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,442
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Originally Posted by R*R View Post
Yeah be careful because I hate bad strat.

Stay safe.
It's strange how we managed to get this far in a thread where a clear and serious question was asked and there's not yet a single straight answer.

Let me ask it again. Can I have a clarification of the NVG rules regarding racism, since it is apparently a bannable offense?

You can publish our whole exchange if you want. I gathered your opinion wasn't much different from the anti-porn activist's above.

I guess the non-answer from all the green posters here is itself a sort of answer.

Little tyrants quoting play kritarchs it is then.
JudgeHoldem1848 is offline  
Old 10-13-2017, 02:01 AM   #20
Bobo Fett
2+2 Ad Man
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 45,605
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
It's strange how we managed to get this far in a thread where a clear and serious question was asked and there's not yet a single straight answer.

Let me ask it again. Can I have a clarification of the NVG rules regarding racism, since it is apparently a bannable offense?
The answer is in the second post of the rules sticky:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio View Post
Racist/sexists/homophobic etc. posts are not acceptable. If you are unsure if something is racist or sexist or homophobic, err on the safe side.
Not sure what kind of clarification you're looking for. No one's going to be able to provide you an exhaustive list of what is or isn't racist.
Bobo Fett is offline  
Old 10-13-2017, 02:28 AM   #21
JudgeHoldem1848
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,442
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
The answer is in the second post of the rules sticky:


Not sure what kind of clarification you're looking for. No one's going to be able to provide you an exhaustive list of what is or isn't racist.
Can you provide a working definition of what constitutes racist posts, or would you have to resort to the brute force of exhaustive lists?

Come to think of it, you know who needs to resort to brute force? Pirates and hackers.

That's not a coincidence. Maybe if exhaustive lists are the only way you could possibly justify your stance, your stance isn't all that coherent.
JudgeHoldem1848 is offline  
Old 10-13-2017, 02:31 AM   #22
R*R
Painting It Black
 
R*R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Not Backsliding a Fragile Moment
Posts: 7,465
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Yeah Judge we are not going to write a paper on racism for you.

I will do this. A rule just for you.

The rule for you is that if you ever speak of race in NVG or post what I feel is a racist comment you will be banned for a long period of time and you will be forever banished from posting in NVG.
R*R is offline  
Old 10-13-2017, 02:34 AM   #23
JudgeHoldem1848
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,442
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Originally Posted by R*R View Post
Yeah Judge we are not going to write a paper on racism for you.

I will do this. A rule just for you.

The rule for you is that if you ever speak of race in NVG or post what I feel is a racist comment you will be banned for a long period of time and you will be forever banished from posting in NVG.
Ok, little tyrants quoting play kritarchs.

There's a serious question here though. Do you think this furthers the public discourse? Or are you just a little play Torquemada using a Barbie-doll breaking wheel, with some unfortunate, albeit limited, real world collateral damage?
JudgeHoldem1848 is offline  
Old 10-13-2017, 02:40 AM   #24
Bobo Fett
2+2 Ad Man
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 45,605
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
Can you provide a working definition of what constitutes racist posts
Do you want me to quote you a definition of racist? Where are we going with this? We both know that determining if a post is racist is always going to be somewhat subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
or would you have to resort to the brute force of exhaustive lists?
Nope. Just wasn't sure if that's what you were looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
Come to think of it, you know who needs to resort to brute force? Pirates and hackers.
Um, OK.

I ate a sandwich for lunch today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
That's not a coincidence. Maybe if exhaustive lists are the only way you could possibly justify your stance, your stance isn't all that coherent.
OK. They aren't, and I'm not justifying a stance, but thanks for the tip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848 View Post
Ok, little tyrants quoting play kritarchs.
I've seen you post this twice now, and it makes no sense to me. Care to explain? Seriously. You used a variation of this a third time, so I assume you think it's quite clever; understanding it would mean this thread provided some value to me.
Bobo Fett is offline  
Old 10-13-2017, 03:03 AM   #25
JudgeHoldem1848
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,442
Re: Clarification of NVG posting rules regarding "racism"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Do you want me to quote you a definition of racist? Where are we going with this? We both know that determining if a post is racist is always going to be somewhat subjective.
Since racism is a bannable offense we can conclude that it is commensurate with a sort of misdemeanor crime. A definition that is as clear as the way in which any misdemeanor is defined would be a decent standard. For example, malicious destruction of property is a misdemeanor with both a legal definition and understood context. Transgressions, public or private, should ideally be defined with enough objectivity so that any reasonable person of good character would tend towards the same course of action when faced with the circumstances where the opportunity to commit the alleged offense arose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
I've seen you post this twice now, and it makes no sense to me. Care to explain? Seriously.
Sure. Master3004, someone who is obviously quite ignorant on this subject, to put it charitably, proposed that a good definition of racism is "I know it when I see it." He was alluding to Associate Justice Potter Stewart's decision in Jacobellis vs Ohio. I was not familiar with the outcome of that case and asked the question as to its resolution innocently, though I suspected what it looked like.

A Kritarch is a judge who rules a people by judicial decree. A kritarchy is the rule by judges. It is a particularly odious form of tyranny because a diffusion or a class of judges is not responsive to the people in the way that a genuine tyrant would be.

Quote:
Um, OK.

I ate a sandwich for lunch today.
Duly noted. Knowing one's audience, even if overestimated in good faith, is a prerequisite to effective communication.
JudgeHoldem1848 is offline  

Closed Thread
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online