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ATF mods are out of control ATF mods are out of control

06-03-2019 , 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 27offsuit
It is now June, you need to move on buddy.
Really? Coming from the guy who just "contained" suzzer because he's still butthurt about a forum that isn't on 2+2 anymore?

I don't think I've ever even posted about this before, it just seemed like a good opportunity to ask what happened since we're here in ATF talking about what a terrible, butthurt mod you are. So you "contained" Keeed in OOT because you were butthurt about things he was posting outside of OOT, and now you're here talking down to others about...anything whatsoever? lol, that's incredible
06-03-2019 , 02:22 AM
Listen goofy, I don't need to answer to internet weirdos like you, which is why I am not answering your incessant questions. This is also a troll thread and you are also a troll.

I'd elaborate, but like I said I don't owe you dick.
06-03-2019 , 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
People are arguing there that black people are genetically less intelligent than white people, but I guess that's not a "problem"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
There is actually no one arguing for that position.
Within hours of WN posting this, look who comes along: a new contender!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus999
It would be surprising if any measured biological difference between 2 distinct groups didn't have a genetic component (That is kind of how biology works, for good or bad).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus999
Well, I would argue that IQ does fit the criteria for a measured biological difference.
06-03-2019 , 02:26 AM
hey goofy, calm.

this ain't going to become a politics type thread.

and the second issue,

if you have mod complaints take it to the mod forum please.
06-03-2019 , 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
Someone mentioned the old politics forum in the "Things that shouldn't piss you off but do" thread then someone replied that there is a new and improved politics forum (those posts post are still up).

I replied explaining why the old forum was nuked, some of my thoughts about where the new forum has gone, and I also pointed out that the new "don't complain about politics in ATF" rule came into effect literally right as the new forum was created.

That spawned some discussion, which 27o then deleted and CONTAINED me. Which apparently is basically at his whim and lasts forever? Even though I haven't had an infraction in OOT maybe ever? At least not in a long time.

Fine. I barely post in OOT anymore anyway and I probably deserved it.

Then out of the blue he sent me that PM. That is not in reply to anything I sent to him. Just containing me wasn't enough I guess. He felt the need to troll me in PM too. He's been pretty unhinged for a while now.
A PM from a mod after an action from them is now a troll?
06-03-2019 , 09:19 AM
Hey guys, is this the new politics thread?
06-03-2019 , 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 27offsuit
suzzer,

in no particular order...

-you posted politics garbage in OOT. That is literally Rule #1. Not sure what you thought the result was going to be, but containment is pretty tame out of all the options.

-while you may not have infractions or whatever, your mod note is pretty dang spot on.

-you're probably lucky Mat didn't see the part you decided to delete.

-containment is never meant to be permanent, it is to fix your poor posting and then set you free into the wild again. So either do that and dance monkey, or take your ball and go home like lolreplol, senorkeed & namath did. Or don't, I don't really care.


I was going to add that you should maybe read the sticky, but will save you the time. FTR this was written over 6 years ago by killa and not me, but I sure subscribe to it. Literally the first rule:

What OOT isn't:

A politics forum- we have one of those, and that's where any political discussion belongs. It's here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/41/politics/***(If you are a regular poster in the politics forum, consider yourself already on thin ice when posting in OOT, and expect the consequences for posting badly to be accelerated)***
What rule covers sending taunting pms to posters you’ve contained?
06-03-2019 , 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Within hours of WN posting this, look who comes along: a new contender!
You're doing some pretty selective editing there. For example, you omitted this pretty relevant section from the second quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus999
I definitely agree "black" or "white" as a concept of a genetic race in the US isn't very useful because the populations are so heterogenous. But if you used genetic testing to establish Chinese American vs Western European American, and measured IQ, if there was a significant difference I would argue it is likely there is a genetic component, but maybe not, and even if there was I would guess the environmental component was more important regardless.
You may also wish to refer back to this previous post, if you want to understand what he's actually arguing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus999
"Perhaps the most celebrated confusion of geographic difference for race followed the publication of Genestic Structure of Human Populations (Rosenberg et al., 2002). The authors studied genetic variation in 1052 people from 52 populations and then asked a computer program called Structure to group the samples. When they asked it to produce two groups, Structure gave them EurAfrica and East Asia-Oceiania-America. When asked for three groups, Structure gave Europe, Africa, and East Asia-Oceania-America. When asked for four, it gave Europe, Africa, East Asia-Oceania, and America. When asked for five, it gave roughly the continents. And when asked for six, it gave the continents and the Kalash people of Pakistan. When asked for more (up to twenty groups), it gave more (Bolnick, 2008)"
This is an excerpt from Well Named linked. I think it shows illustrates pretty clearly that the idea of race as we use it is a social construct.
Kelhus is not and has not argued "that black people are genetically less intelligent than white people". I think you could be forgiven for not having seen the second post I quoted, since it was quite a while back now, but you literally copy/pasted text from a post while ignoring the part that directly contradicts your claim.

R*R: I'm sorry to prolong this but I think the complaint goofy is making is a little too inflammatory to completely ignore.
06-03-2019 , 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus999
But if you used genetic testing to establish Chinese American vs Western European American, and measured IQ, if there was a significant difference I would argue it is likely there is a genetic component, but maybe not, and even if there was I would guess the environmental component was more important regardless.
.
06-03-2019 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerowo
What rule covers sending taunting pms to posters you’ve contained?
I don't think there is an explicit rule against it.
06-03-2019 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5
A PM from a mod after an action from them is now a troll?
No. A PM with the subject "Play stupid games" and a body "win stupid prizes" is a troll.

Hope this helps. I know navigating the rules of the old forum w/o constantly getting banned was very confusing for you.
06-03-2019 , 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
Kelhus is not and has not argued "that black people are genetically less intelligent than white people". I think you could be forgiven for not having seen the second post I quoted, since it was quite a while back now, but you literally copy/pasted text from a post while ignoring the part that directly contradicts your claim.
You know that arguing Asians are (slightly) smarter than whites is part of their shtick right? How can I possibly be racist when I admit Asians are smarter than whites? Moi?

You're doing a good job of teaching them exactly where the line is:
  • Asians smarter than whites? Ok.
  • General babbly pontification about maybe other races (gee who could guess which ones?) having lower IQs, and that being genetic, purely hypothetical of course? Ok.
  • Specifying which races those might be? Not ok.

Just stay an inch on the proper side of the line guys - that's all we ask. You can say a=b and b=c but for now let's hold off on a=c. kthx

Maybe if you're good we'll let you nudge the line every now and then. Oh and be civil of course. A little light eugenics speculation is no excuse to be rude to each other.

Last edited by suzzer99; 06-03-2019 at 04:19 PM.
06-03-2019 , 04:34 PM
I'm familiar with the shtick. I've already perma-banned one actual white supremacist (quite a while ago, with no fanfare) who attempted it. But I'm also able to exercise my own judgment about who is contributing reasonably within the boundaries of the forum and who is not. I have enough experience with the poster in question to feel comfortable about his intentions and contributions, and to distinguish him from the poster I banned, for example.

I understand that you, goofy and others (primarily others who are now no longer participating in the 2+2 politics forum) disagree with where I've set the line in that thread, or in the forum in general. I think it's understandable that there are disagreements about this, and I think the decision to have that conversation at all is debatable. But I think the conversation which has taken place has some value, delicate though the subject is. In the same way, I think the thread you started about cultural change has value. In any case, I think that if people want to complain they ought to be careful to be accurate, rather than misrepresenting what has been posted in the most inflammatory way possible.

In any case, I'm currently comfortable with my decisions regarding that thread, and at this point I think I am unlikely to change my mind unless the admins tell me that I should.
06-03-2019 , 04:35 PM
Obviously, we need more immigration from Asia and more white women bearing half-Asian babies to make America greater.
06-03-2019 , 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
You're doing some pretty selective editing there. For example, you omitted this pretty relevant section from the second quote:
lmao. "He only said Chinese American!"

In a thread with a huge discussion about the work of Charles Murray, in which people are defending the work of Charles Murray, and in which those same people are saying that IQ measurements between different "biological groups" (no idea which groups those might be!) are likely to be genetic, Well Named still, somehow, can't find a single person who might be arguing that IQ differences between black and white people are genetic. Not even in this juan valdez post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by juan valdez
This is like a mirror image of climate change denial. First of all, the premise is absurd. If you have the most basic understanding of evolution you would realize that the concept of race is people evolving in different environments. People evolving in different environments will produce different results. This is obvious and everyone acknowledges it with things like hair and skin tone. The idea that people would evolve in different environments and then expect the same outcomes at the group level is a failure of elementary school level evolution. The same can be said about gender differences. Men and women are different on average. To then expect the same outcomes is just the failure of an IQ test.

This is clearly and obviously demonstrated in sports. Ethiopians destroy in distance running. They live at elevation and have a slight frame. Their performance is exceptional. It's not a social construct. West Africans from the Caribbean completely dominate sprinting events. They dominate sprinting events as a massive minority in countries like the USA, Canada, and across Europe. It's not a social construct or a statistical miracle. I know what you're thinking, I'm not a black supremacist. Because I believe IQ research, I'm not an Asian supremacist either.
Is juan arguing in favor of conclusions that IQ differences between black people and others are genetic in nature? By gosh, Well Named just can't tell! He doesn't even use the word "black" directly next to "IQ", how could we possibly know?!?

In-****ing-credible that Mat handed off a politics forum to this guy.
06-03-2019 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison
Obviously, we need more immigration from Asia and more white women bearing half-Asian babies to make America greater.
See BD, I was right about that posting thing.
06-03-2019 , 04:41 PM
I think we should consider making bundy a mod.
06-03-2019 , 04:43 PM
Race, evolution, genetics and IQ - always a winning conversation. Funny how that always becomes a major topic in every alternative politics forum on this site. So weird.

Even when they know they shouldn't - they just can't seem to keep away from the tastiest sweetest nectar of race and IQ.

WN, I told you if you let JV run wild this was going to happen. I gave the new forum an honest try, but not with that propagandist pied piper spewing feces all over the place. Someone else can do the utterly thankless joyless job of cleaning up his mess.

Last edited by suzzer99; 06-03-2019 at 04:53 PM.
06-03-2019 , 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 27offsuit
suzzer,

in no particular order...

-you posted politics garbage in OOT. That is literally Rule #1. Not sure what you thought the result was going to be, but containment is pretty tame out of all the options.

-while you may not have infractions or whatever, your mod note is pretty dang spot on.

-you're probably lucky Mat didn't see the part you decided to delete.

-containment is never meant to be permanent, it is to fix your poor posting and then set you free into the wild again. So either do that and dance monkey, or take your ball and go home like lolreplol, senorkeed & namath did. Or don't, I don't really care.


I was going to add that you should maybe read the sticky, but will save you the time. FTR this was written over 6 years ago by killa and not me, but I sure subscribe to it. Literally the first rule:

What OOT isn't:

A politics forum- we have one of those, and that's where any political discussion belongs. It's here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/41/politics/***(If you are a regular poster in the politics forum, consider yourself already on thin ice when posting in OOT, and expect the consequences for posting badly to be accelerated)***
Lol U mad?
06-03-2019 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 27offsuit
Actually, I usually send a PM reiterating a poster is contained in case they don't see it in the thread. But you were a special case, because you were obviously playing a stupid game which resulted in you winning a stupid prize.


What did the mod say when you PM'd them about posting a PM publicly? Asking for a friend.
Lol, he mad.
06-03-2019 , 05:47 PM
jman,

Projecting!
06-03-2019 , 06:24 PM
LOL me mad. 10 years + since I created my account here and I never clicked once on this forum until today. Some of the time spent with low level riggie whiners could have been spent here!

The rare times I would post in politics I would get weird PMs all the time from the regs there (before they gently moved to their next phase in life) saying I was a gimmick account for all sorts of user names I never heard of, but those were better than the threats of violence or death I would get from riggies at times via PM, so I guess I kind of looked at those PMs as a gentler form of the internet. Guess I never thought PMs like that were that much of an issue (even though I did report the death/violence threats at the time to have those posters banned), but alas I did not know of this forum then! Definitely an enjoyable read.
06-03-2019 , 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
Race, evolution, genetics and IQ - always a winning conversation. Funny how that always becomes a major topic in every alternative politics forum on this site. So weird.

Even when they know they shouldn't - they just can't seem to keep away from the tastiest sweetest nectar of race and IQ.

WN, I told you if you let JV run wild this was going to happen. I gave the new forum an honest try, but not with that propagandist pied piper spewing feces all over the place. Someone else can do the utterly thankless joyless job of cleaning up his mess.
Feature, not bug. WN wouldn't have the complete social experimentation playset without JV.
06-03-2019 , 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by R*R
hey goofy, calm.

this ain't going to become a politics type thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
R*R: I'm sorry to prolong this but I think the complaint goofy is making is a little too inflammatory to completely ignore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Hey guys, is this the new politics thread?
R*R can i respectively suggest that it will be unless you delete all the politics stuff.

If not then let's at least have an appropriate soundtrack.

06-03-2019 , 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
In-****ing-credible that Mat handed off a politics forum to this guy.
Well named is doing a fine job.
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