https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...nnect-1742511/

Why can they offcially advertise on 2+2?
The whole set up of this is clearly illegal (in general as a 'club', as well as in regards to area restriction), meaning players are at the mercy of the operators and it feels like enough people have run into problems with 'Chinese Only' private poker apps (just search recent NVG topics).

Furthermore, why is this any different then someone (commercially) advising/setting up/helping players located in the US to play on ROW sites, sth. that I thought was clearly prohibited on this site...?

It's not clear to me, so perhaps you can make it so.

How is it the same?

That's not to say that either of these things necessarily negates the possibility of them advertising here, but I'd like to know more.

Also, I'm curious what motivates you to create an account simply to start this thread.

Tried to focus just on the main points from your post, still became a little bit TLDR. Sorry

I hated and commented on how long 2+2 kept running Lock poker ads.
I hated and commented on how 2+2 let Coinpoker advertise their ICO scheme (ROI on ICO ended up being almost a complete financial loss for investors - 'shocking'!)
First account I lost due to 2+2 site-wide hacking incident, 2nd account was banned unrelated afterwards.
So I made a new account for this topic (since it's kinda similar to the ones above).
No idea why this is relevant to my question in OP, but here ya go...

So, reading this statement...

...and since you basically replied to my OP with questions, let me throw it back to you:


In general:

Do you think private poker clubs online are legal?
Do you think circumventing restrictions (only Chinese players allowed) makes player accounts even more exposed to be taken advantage of?
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...ounts-1738982/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...ayers-1732359/


More specific:

Asia Poker Connect advertises on their website (which is linked in the 2+2 thread) a total of 8 poker rooms. While some seem obscure (at least to me, with names like Potato Poker, lol), the two main ones I have heard of - 'Poker Master' and 'Red Dragon Poker'.
Both received a 5 out of 5 for "Trustability"!

Do you think that rating is reasonable and alligns well with the content of the following 2+2 threads?
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...story-1668907/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...poker-1740999/



Regarding my question to it being comparable to e.g. someone offering VPN or 'fake relocation' services after Black Friday:
I'm happy to concede that point, if 2+2 never had the stance that those weren't allowed to openly advertise here. My memory on this seemed different...


Finally though, even if it being deemed illegal or comparable to sth. that hasn't been allowed on 2+2 prior still doesn't 'negates the possibility of them advertising here' then I assume my reply seems useless anyway and case closed...

Hello, I'm Greg from Asia Poker Connect.

This is not a problem with ‘Chinese only’ private poker apps, this is a problem we face in our daily lives. We go on craigslist buy something get scammed and many times we cannot do anything about it that’s life. I am sure new adults considering playing on such apps can make their own risk reward analysis.

However for players currently playing on such apps, the decision is even simpler. Would you rather deal with faceless agents who only cash you out when they feel like it or would you rather deal with us who have legit ambassadors, cash you out within 24hrs and get a better deal in the process.

We are not circumventing restrictions, we have special relationships which allow us sole distribution of foreign player slots in the “Chinese only” rooms that we are talking about. If you are currently playing in those rooms you will understand that recently there is a shift to banning non china players. We however have managed to do a deal which allows us sole access to these rooms. However being pragmatic, even if the rooms do not pay we will cover for it” unless we state otherwise beforehand”so the above point is kinda pointless in a way.

Like I said previously we guarantee the funds hence it is more like 5/5 trustability asiapokerconnect. Anyone who choose to consider playing with us should judge us instead and leave the credit rating judgment of the site to us. However there are always some sites which have more instances of collusion/botting happening and we will always give our customers a heads up and let him or her make an educated choice.


I understand there is a lot of distrusts in this industry but I believe if the two plus two community can give us a chance, we will show you guys that we are not some fly by night operation and are committed to disrupting this business providing you guys with better value and experience overall.

Discard I hope I have at least answered some of your questions, thank you for asking these questions, the community need it.

Not a good look when critical posts in said thread are being deleted

Bobo Fett,

I'm well aware that you for a long time have been the official "2+2 Ad Man", so I replied to your questions above in good faith.

In turn, I would really like to get your (and therefore 2+2's) official take on this situation (since obviously I disagree with a lot of what the APC company itself stands for, does, and is stating, so the response by apcgreg, while probably well intended, does not mean much to me).

Thank you very much in advance...

P.S.: If you could, maybe give a short reply too on the statement above from long-term poster 'sixfour'



Also gonna be interesting how this new Pokerstars / Red Dragon development plays out here:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...-site-1742981/

Discard

I have zero horse in this race but I've never liked these possible hidden agenda type accounts.

Maybe you should tell us who you are.

For all we know you're just a shill for the competition and as we all know shills are the scum of the earth.

What's floating your boat here?

Moved some posts about 2+2 allowing this advertising from the sponsored thread over to here, where they belong.

Where did you get the idea that promotion of PP clubs isn't allowed? No decision has been made on that at this time.

We're not promoting it, but we are accepting an advertisement. Do you have any specific reasons we shouldn't?

Well, given that I can't remember a single site outside of Cereus that has been proven to have super users, it doesn't sound entirely accurate, but perhaps you could provide some more details, if you think it would be in some way helpful to the discussion in this thread. I'm not sure how it would be, TBH.

Actually, you only replied to one question, which I probably shouldn't have asked anyway, but I appreciate you having done so. The rest of my questions, you seemed to take as some kind of "answering a question with a question", when in fact I was simply seeking clarification, and so you answered my questions with more of your own.

I'm not sure what situation you're referring to, but I'll do my best to answer your previous questions as asked, although most of them are difficult for me to respond to.

If you disagree with his responses, you should let him know.

That's a pretty vague question. I expect that there are certain types of private poker clubs that are legal in certain jurisdictions, and others that are illegal.

Based on such a vague question, I have no idea.

I don't know how these links are meant to relate to your points.

My understanding is that they dropped Red Dragon's "trustability" rating based on feedback they received. As for Poker Master, I see a couple of specific allegations about payment that are concerning, from a couple of years ago. Beyond that, there are a lot of non-specific critical posts, as we see for pretty much all poker sites. I couldn't possibly say if they deserve a "trustability" rating of 0, 5, or something in between.

Different than whose memory? I didn't disagree that we didn't/don't allow ads like that; I asked you how this was the same.

Why would you assume that? You've left out some rather important words from my reply:

The message is that there isn't a blanket rule that any site that does something considered illegal in certain jurisdictions will never be able to advertise with us. Everything is situation dependent, which is why I said "I'd like to know more". I meant it.

One post was deleted, not because it was critical of the site, but because it was critical of our decision to allow their advertising; those posts belong here. The poster was informed that they're welcome to post about it here.

I've now quoted 3 more posts from that thread, and responded to them here, and will be deleting them from that thread. I'll post in that thread explaining why, and providing a link to this thread.

If any of this sounds dismissive, it's not intended to be. I understand why there would be concerns. I would certainly be cautious about playing on private poker clubs (I would actually be cautious playing almost anywhere online these days, albeit with different levels of caution depending where it was). At the same time, I know many 2+2ers already do, and I'm sure we have a small network of agents and affiliates who create accounts here and PM people about them, which results in our members signing up with people they know little about. When someone like APC advertises with us, people are able to bring up concerns publicly, and others can make their decision with that information in hand. That's not to make this out as a public service we're doing for our members, and I understand that some will view the advertisements as some kind of endorsement by 2+2, which no one ever should on any publication for any advertiser, unless said publication explicitly endorses them.

Your concerns are welcome, and all will be read and considered. Even if we don't take action, that doesn't mean your input wasn't valued, or that something might not change in the future as a result.

Fair enough Bobo. I just find taking ad money from, what is for all intents and purposes, an agent to allow people to bumhunt private games where there are little to no safeguards for people's funds highly questionable

I think it's a positive development. These chinese apps are a big market so allowing 2+2ers to access these games in a format where the agent can be held a bit accountable is a good thing.

[QUOTE=Bobo Fett;55109248]Moved some posts about 2+2 allowing this advertising from the sponsored thread over to here, where they belong.

Where did you get the idea that promotion of PP clubs isn't allowed? No decision has been made on that at this time.]


Didn’t you specifically message me with a warning for pp clubs??





Originally Posted by Carl Trooper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
Dear Carl Trooper,

You have received an infraction at Two Plus Two Poker Forums.

Reason: PM spam
-------
Maybe spam isn't quite the right word, but any kind of PMs promoting your business, even if requested, are not allowed. We have way too many people trying to promote their clubs, agencies, etc. on these different networks, so we crack down very harshly on this stuff.
-------

This infraction is worth 20 point(s). Reaching a total of 100 points will result in a ban from the forums. Serious infractions may never expire.
Two Plus Two Poker Forums

What about the guy who ASKED to be PMd??
See bolded above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Trooper
Seems like entrapment ...
Sure does.

Carl Trooper


It seems to me he warned you against doing PM spamming or PM business promotion and nothing else.

Maybe the honest and ethical thing for you to do would be to negotiate a fee for advertising here if that is what you want to do. Somehow someone knew to PM you about your business and in most cases one would need to do something to influence this.

How often did you PM people about your business?

Or was it all just a misunderstanding?

You've been infracted at least 4 times for spamming so I think I know the answer to the above. But feel free to enlighten us.

Really, Carl?

Sigh.

Yeh really.

I typed in the PP forum and someone did message me first, I responded and got the infraction. I did also pm 1-2 people on my own doing.

It’s all good. I’m not mad or anything. Obviously there was some confusion
Alright cool. So I could type in the forum and have people message me if interested?

Sounds good.

Maybe I've been on these forums too long and assume what is obvious to me is obvious to all, when it isn't.

We don't allow posters to promote whatever they like, whenever they like. Take a second and think what our forums would look like if we did. So no, you can't type in the forum and have people message you if interested, whether it is for clubs on PPPoker, or any other site. Sorry for any confusion.

APC is paying to advertise on our forums.

Thank you for your answer...