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Old 12-01-2010, 06:58 PM   #2826
Poker Clif
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Beer View Post
I don't know why you guys keep laughing about people saying you count cards in poker.

Here is an excellent strategy article which explains how to count cards, taken from a poker site. The maths may be a bit hard to follow, but if you've read Sklansky, you can probably follow it well enough.

http://au.888.com/poker/how-to-use-c...oker-strategy/

"You may have heard the counting cards when playing poker can actually increase the level or profit you make. While this will differ greatly from player to player and game to game, it is important to just give it a try. But, if you have looked for information on card counting before, you know that there is very little helpful information available on the subject.
Here is a basic primer on counting cards when playing poker that will help you get started in the right direction!

Math
The essential concepts of counting cards are all based on math. The goal is to use as much information as possible to determine what the chances of you winning your poker hand is in relation to the size of the jackpot and how much more you have to contribute to stay hand. This sounds quite simple, but card counting is a lot more difficult than this, and takes a lot of knowledge and skill to pull of successfully on a consistent basis!

Overall Strategy
One thing that you can’t afford to forget is that card counting is only a small component of a successful poker strategy. You can’t make money just counting cards alone – you need starting poker hand strategy, a betting strategy, and a few more components along with card counting to make a complete system. If you try and play Omaha hi or Texas Holdem by just counting cards, there is a good change you will not be profitable!

If you know what you are doing, counting cards when playing Texas Holdem and Omaha hi online is not that difficult. As long as you know when the correct time is to implement it in your overall poker strategy and don’t forget to play correct starting poker hands, it can’t hurt your game. If you log into your favorite online poker room or any of the other poker sites you have an account with and try out poker card counting at the play money tables, you will soon see how this technique can really help you win online poker tournaments and other poker events!"
I just read the article. The author didn't explain what he means by "counting cards" in poker, and if there was any strategy in the article I missed it.

In a way, every decent poker player counts cards, or at least, he knows the odds based on someone else counting them. When you say that you are getting 4:11 on a flush draw, of course that is based on counting how many cards of your suit are available and comparing that to the total number of available cards.

Nothing new to see here.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:01 PM   #2827
Poker Clif
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

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Originally Posted by Jakeeck View Post
convo with my mom yesterday

me: im going to play poker for income for the next 6 months until my summer job since I make more than I would at a regular part time job.
mom: no you should get a real job!
me: it is a real job you wouldnt understand
mom: you're luck is going to run out jacob!
You better get used to it. I'm 55. My mother is 78. Trust me, your mom will never stop acting like a mom. But my wife and my dad both "get it", and two of my sons play, so overall I have a pretty good family support system.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:05 PM   #2828
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

nice post OP. pretty much same thing here. i try not to tell people i play poker. i'm tired of hearing them say:


"you can't beat the donkies in a casino... they JUST DON'T know how to play."
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:50 AM   #2829
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

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Originally Posted by Poker Clif View Post
I just read the article. The author didn't explain what he means by "counting cards" in poker, and if there was any strategy in the article I missed it.

In a way, every decent poker player counts cards, or at least, he knows the odds based on someone else counting them. When you say that you are getting 4:11 on a flush draw, of course that is based on counting how many cards of your suit are available and comparing that to the total number of available cards.

Nothing new to see here.
If I was going to predict someone who would fall for that article, it would be you.
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:36 AM   #2830
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

So yesterday I showed my dad a variance simulator. So that he would understand how a winning player can lose for days, weeks, months even. But if you have a positive expected winrate you will win in the long run.
So I showed him all the different graphs for like 5 min and explained it pretty well imo.
After I finally was done he asked "So who's simulator is this, how do we know it's not made by someone who wants people to think they are winning players when they are not."
I tried to explain the simulator is just maths and I could show him in excel and all, but I think I had already lost all my credibility, lol..
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:28 AM   #2831
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

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Originally Posted by Poker Clif View Post
I just read the article. The author didn't explain what he means by "counting cards" in poker, and if there was any strategy in the article I missed it.
Yes, I know.
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:50 AM   #2832
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

Nothing worse than when you're talking about poker and what you won, then someone says its all about luck and the others agree.

They dont think you're a good poker player, they just you're a lucky son of a b....
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:31 AM   #2833
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

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Originally Posted by FeedMyKidsPlz View Post
Nothing worse than when you're talking about poker and what you won, then someone says its all about luck and the others agree.

They dont think you're a good poker player, they just you're a lucky son of a b....
lol. what did you expect.
don't brag about poker, ever.
you gain nothing by doing that. they will either ask you to lend them money or be jealous of your luck.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:39 AM   #2834
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

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Originally Posted by Fredron View Post
So yesterday I showed my dad a variance simulator. So that he would understand how a winning player can lose for days...
lol this is pretty much hopeless imho. Ppl that don't play poker or gamble plain simple don't get it. They fail to understand how a winning player can have a losing day. Maybe if u talk about it with someone that actually uses math and statistics as a part of they job they'd get it.

Then, there's ppl like my mom, that kinda gets the "math" but has no grasp whatsoever as to how poker works, and has absolutely no intention in trying to undersatand it. She kinda gets that if I get it in as a 80% favourite, I'll lose 20% of the time. Then, things in her head goes like this:

her: So if u get it in as a 80% favourite everytime, how come u'll ever lose money in a day?
me: That was an example, it's impossible for me to be an 80% favourite everytime.
her: Oh, so ur actually not that good, are u?
me: No one can be an 80% favourite everytime. It was just an example. It's impossible for any poker player to do that.
her: See? It's all about luck afterall...
me: No, it's about making good decisions, to always be in the winning side of the odds.
her: But if ur always on the winning side, how is it possible to lose money? If that's not about luck, idk what it is...
me: Sigh... nevermind.
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:37 AM   #2835
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

was talking with my two brothers bout online poker after we had some beer and some weed

bro1: why u play cards so many hours per day? its pointless
me: becouse im making money this way
bro1: lol but its not real money
me: it is real!
bro2: so where is the money?
me: its on my poker account
bro2: have you ever cashed out?
me: no, i need more money to build a bigger bankroll so i can make more money in the near future
bro1: this money is not real! u have never seen it and u never will *lol*
me: thousend of people out there making money while playing poker online and they make more then u can imagine
bro2: its not true, nobody is making a lot of money from playing poker online, internet washed ur brain.... ur a zombie
me: lol wtf, ofc they are tons of players out there, but nobody is talking about becouse of idiotic conversations like this one
bro2: poker is only luck
me: its pure maths!
bro2: if we gona play 10 hands u r not gonna win all of them
me: 10 hands is luck, milllion hands is skill
bro2: if its so easy to make money online... why u dont teach bro1 how to do it?
me: look at him, he is just to stupid for it
bro1: *loling all the time*
me: lets talk about something else.... its pointless, u just dont understand it


was something like this... sry for crappie english
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:59 AM   #2836
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.


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Old 12-03-2010, 11:19 AM   #2837
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

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Originally Posted by CoolStarryBra View Post
bro2: have you ever cashed out?
me: no, i need more money to build a bigger bankroll so i can make more money in the near future
You've never cashed out? I think bro2 is onto something.
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:52 AM   #2838
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

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You've never cashed out? I think bro2 is onto something.
This.

And, LOL at your name.
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:23 PM   #2839
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

Surprised that so many winning poker players don't know how to spin a conversation!

Here is a handy guide:

But how much did you LOSE?
About 6 hours of my time.


Can you take $x and turn it into $y?
I can try. No guarantees - could turn it into $y or $0, and you take the risk. (Take the freeroll, people!)


Do you count cards?
Sometimes, if I'm counting whether or not I have five spades to make the flush.


You should cash it all out!
And be out of work?


Poker is all luck!
You're right, I have to be lucky enough to have players worse than me sit down with their money.
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:27 PM   #2840
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

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Originally Posted by workforce View Post
Surprised that so many winning poker players don't know how to spin a conversation!

Here is a handy guide:

But how much did you LOSE?
About 6 hours of my time.


Can you take $x and turn it into $y?
I can try. No guarantees - could turn it into $y or $0, and you take the risk. (Take the freeroll, people!)


Do you count cards?
Sometimes, if I'm counting whether or not I have five spades to make the flush.


You should cash it all out!
And be out of work?


Poker is all luck!
You're right, I have to be lucky enough to have players worse than me sit down with their money.
this made me lol
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:54 PM   #2841
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by workforce View Post
Surprised that so many winning poker players don't know how to spin a conversation!

Here is a handy guide:

But how much did you LOSE?
About 6 hours of my time.


Can you take $x and turn it into $y?
I can try. No guarantees - could turn it into $y or $0, and you take the risk. (Take the freeroll, people!)


Do you count cards?
Sometimes, if I'm counting whether or not I have five spades to make the flush.


You should cash it all out!
And be out of work?


Poker is all luck!
You're right, I have to be lucky enough to have players worse than me sit down with their money.
I copy, pasted this to use later. could have used some of these lines 10x already if i had known. Especially the line about being out of work - people are always telling me to "cash out now while u still can"...
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:04 PM   #2842
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

I don't tell people I play because then I would have to admit how much Ive lost obv
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:29 PM   #2843
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

I try not to tell people I play poker either they just don't understand.

maybe its cause I live in the south, but most people I meet or even co-workers I've known for years that find out I play poker are so condescending about it. I get some of the strangest and most negative looks. Some say things like "oh that's illegal" or "its all rigged" and some just act like its an impossible feat to make any money from poker.

I can't talk to the ones who aren't negative about it because they just give me blank stares. which is ok I do the same thing when people talk to me about something I don't understand like reality TV.

side note: I used to work with a guy who was leaving our company to go play minor league baseball in hopes of one day making it to the majors. my co-workers had no problem talking to this guy like he was actually going to make it!!! they didn't give him any speech about how impossible it is or how short term it is. they gathered around this guy who hadn't made a penny playing ball like he was telling camp fire stories or something.

meanwhile at the other end of the break room. while mulling over equity calculations and hand histories in my head I can't help but think "WTF!!!". I will make more money playing poker in my life than %99.9 of anybody out there with some hoop dream about playing any sport professionally. yet who's the outcast? who gets bad looks? who gets crap from religious people?

now when people ask me what I do I tell them "I manage an online bankroll" or "I'm an investment manager"(two things I really do). No one know what the hell I'm talking about but it sounds like something they heard on CNBC or Bloomberg TV so they smile and go along with it and the reaction I get is generally positive.

anyway sorry about that rant. I've been wanting to say something like this for a while. what a great thread glad I found it.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:44 AM   #2844
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOLVER1NE View Post
lol this is pretty much hopeless imho. Ppl that don't play poker or gamble plain simple don't get it. They fail to understand how a winning player can have a losing day. Maybe if u talk about it with someone that actually uses math and statistics as a part of they job they'd get it.

Then, there's ppl like my mom, that kinda gets the "math" but has no grasp whatsoever as to how poker works, and has absolutely no intention in trying to undersatand it. She kinda gets that if I get it in as a 80% favourite, I'll lose 20% of the time. Then, things in her head goes like this:

her: So if u get it in as a 80% favourite everytime, how come u'll ever lose money in a day?
me: That was an example, it's impossible for me to be an 80% favourite everytime.
her: Oh, so ur actually not that good, are u?
me: No one can be an 80% favourite everytime. It was just an example. It's impossible for any poker player to do that.
her: See? It's all about luck afterall...
me: No, it's about making good decisions, to always be in the winning side of the odds.
her: But if ur always on the winning side, how is it possible to lose money? If that's not about luck, idk what it is...
me: Sigh... nevermind.
Well I guess you could try explaining that on average the weighted coinflip is more like a 55/45and you don't get to flip that many coins per day so losing streaks can last a while, while still playing a winning/profitable strategy with good bankroll management.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:48 AM   #2845
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

was having a mega bad session today so i was tilted as fuuuuu... my roomates had a party downstairs which i wasnt a part of cuz i had enough last night.. anyways they come in during the middle of my session when im getting wrecked and introduce me to people and then i got 3 people asking if im winning.. i told them im breaking even so they would go away.. one of them goes "but dude uve been up here for an hour what have u been doing" at this point im fuming man i really wanna deck this dude in the ****in face but instead i just stare at my laptop with the biggest "**** off face" ever

/life tilt
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:44 PM   #2846
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

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Originally Posted by rakemeplz View Post
Well I guess you could try explaining that on average the weighted coinflip is more like a 55/45and you don't get to flip that many coins per day so losing streaks can last a while, while still playing a winning/profitable strategy with good bankroll management.
"So u spend time flipping coins?? WTF, are u crazy?? How good are u if on average ur just 50-50?? What kinda strategy is that, flipping coins... That's not being good, that's being lucky. Stop befire u luck runs out, it won't last forever and u'll be broke in the end."

Yes, 50-50 and 55-45 are just about the same in non poker playing\non gambling ppl heads.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:57 PM   #2847
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

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Originally Posted by AlmostFamous View Post
lol. what did you expect.
don't brag about poker, ever.
you gain nothing by doing that. they will either ask you to lend them money or be jealous of your luck.
In practice, this is probably good advice. But it's a shame that people react like that.

In almost any other legal occupation, it's OK to be excited about making a good income, getting a performance bonus or promotion, etc.

Last edited by Poker Clif; 12-04-2010 at 05:57 PM. Reason: missing preposition
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:49 PM   #2848
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

Like... finance?
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Old 12-06-2010, 12:41 PM   #2849
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

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Originally Posted by Naked Penguins View Post
I copy, pasted this to use later. could have used some of these lines 10x already if i had known. Especially the line about being out of work - people are always telling me to "cash out now while u still can"...
Thanks! I'm not a winning player atm, so I unfortunately can't try out any of my lines "in the field", but I am thinking of taking up life coaching marketed to winning poker players.
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:43 AM   #2850
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Re: Why I don't tell people I play poker.

Bump

Just finished reading the entire thread. Took me a couple of days though.
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