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Old 08-17-2006, 08:33 PM   #151
Professor_77
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!1!!1

The information contained in this thread is largely untrue. Overcards aren't better because they have more outs, they are better because there are two different ranks and therefore they are more likely to make straights. Straights are better than pairs.
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:34 PM   #152
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

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Dude are you for real??? Or are you smoking crack?

Think of this way: Overcards need 1 of the remaing 6, or some combo of straight, running flush, or weird paired board to counterfeit lower pair.

Pocket Pair: EVERYTHING ELSE

Net result: pocket pair slight favourite to win 52% i believe.

LOL.
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:21 PM   #153
kiwi
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

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I feel for Canada Dry...

I've seen a lot of his posts lately and he really... REALLY wants to engage in serious debates. Apparently the sarcas-o-meter some guy sold him is not only broken... but as it turns out is actually just a dead squirrel with some broken keys from a keyboard glued on to make it look high-tech.

Stop picking on the poor guy =/
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Old 08-18-2006, 07:46 PM   #154
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!1!!1

I had a vision last night while masterbating, which brought me to this theory.

ok, lets say you have one 6 versus one ace. the ace will hit a straight or flush about 60% of the time while the 6 will only hit around 40, clearly because the ace is higher in value and can go from 10-a and/or a-5.

now, if we add another card to the 6, since hold'em deals with 2 cards,66 versus one ace will have about half the chance of getting a straight or flush because the 6 counterfeits it and lessens the percentage.

this makes the new percentages around 20% for 66 hitting a straight/flush to 80% for just one ace. if I added in the other possibilities, since the ace can win by hitting a pair, trips, full house, quads, or royal flush, then the ace would be about a 89% favorite overall to win. also, since the ace can win by quads coming on the board and having an ace kicker, this bumps it up to 92% to win, and we didnt even add another card to it yet!

I hope you are still following. ok, so mathematically currently the ace is 92% versus 66 who is 8%. we now add a King to the ace, and this doubles the percentage and also halves 66's winning %

the new percentages are approx. 92*2= 214% to 8/2= 4%.

You may be asking, "wait, 214+4 is only 218%? what accounts for the other 782%?"

I'm not finished.

If you think of the numbers as a triangle, there would be an ace on one corner, a king on the other, and a 6 on the final one (since you cannot have two 6s in it). the Ace and King represent 2/3 of the triangle, so now we must multiply 214*2/3= about 200 and add it to the original number.
also, 4*1/3 is 2 so we subtract that and it gives us 2.

now we have AK 414% to win VS 66 2%
this part is frequently overlooked. Most people dont realize they are playing with two cards and view their hole cards as a whole. this makes people forget to multiply the percentage by 2 or divide, if necessary.

we are at 828% and 1% now. almost finished.

back to jman's theory... you are not completely wrong, your ideas do eventually tie in to the intricate problem solving of this situation. since AK has 6 outs while 66 has only 2, we multiply this by the amount of cards in a deck. and this gives us 312 and 104. we simply add/subtract these numbers to our percentiles, giving us 1140% and -103%. If I worked out all these numbers in decimals the -103 would actually be -104, but I thought it was +EV to do it this way.

ok, finally, we must switch the 0 and 4 in -104% for 66's winning chance clearly because you are playing no limit and not pot/fixed limit (if it was pot limit, for example, you would switch the 4 and 1.)

thus, we have 1140% and -140%, added together gives us 1,000% or 1.

I hope this clears things up. AK vs 66 is a 1140% to -140% favorite.

I spent much thinking, time, and money on this project. I have done several experiments that back up my theory.

NOTE: this was not tested with pinochle decks, or when you are playing wrap arounds. also, I am not liable for any losses from applying this strategy to games using blackjack decks. (which decreases ak's winnning percentage drastically)
I know that I do not even have 20 posts, which decreases reliability by 120%, but if you think about it mathematically we all have less that 20 posts.


Thank you for listening and if you need any tips or advice on how to improve your poker game feel free to give me a PM.
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Old 09-04-2006, 09:49 PM   #155
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

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Quote:
I feel for Canada Dry...

I've seen a lot of his posts lately and he really... REALLY wants to engage in serious debates. Apparently the sarcas-o-meter some guy sold him is not only broken... but as it turns out is actually just a dead squirrel with some broken keys from a keyboard glued on to make it look high-tech.

Stop picking on the poor guy =/
Where can i buy one of these and how much?
I don't have one of those, but I do have a Powerbook for sale. Here are some pictures:









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Old 09-24-2006, 08:52 PM   #156
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

I think the last two posts should effectively end this thread once and for all.
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Old 09-24-2006, 10:02 PM   #157
Doug Funnie II
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

lol n00baments
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Old 09-24-2006, 10:12 PM   #158
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

That computer is effing awesome!!!!!!!! A real notebook computer.


HAHAHHAHAHAHAH
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Old 09-24-2006, 10:17 PM   #159
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

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I think the last two posts should effectively end this thread once and for all.
probably, if you hadn't bumped it
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Old 09-24-2006, 10:26 PM   #160
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

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I think the last two posts should effectively end this thread once and for all.
This thread was being posted in when you were still just a twinkle in 2+2's eye.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:32 PM   #161
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

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i think i just peed while reading this. just for future reference...can i deduce this sort of math into my Omaha game or no? (I just dont wanna b the 'Moran' that cant do math correctly)
No, this strategy does not apply to Omaha, it only applies to poker games.
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Old 11-03-2006, 01:39 PM   #162
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

i jman
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Old 11-03-2006, 02:32 PM   #163
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

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Quote:
i think i just peed while reading this. just for future reference...can i deduce this sort of math into my Omaha game or no? (I just dont wanna b the 'Moran' that cant do math correctly)
No, this strategy does not apply to Omaha, it only applies to poker games.
nh
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Old 11-03-2006, 02:52 PM   #164
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

Does this apply to trips as well? Since you have 6 cards to make trips and he only has two. Since you need 2 cards for trips, you effectively have 3 (6/2) outs for trips. Since he only has 2 you are ahead there as well. I want to make sure I have this concept down. No wonder the pros make all that money when they leave out these vital calculations in their books. I WANT MY MONEY BACK DOYLE!
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Old 11-13-2006, 04:52 PM   #165
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

this thread is the reason I am now winning lotsa monies.
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Old 11-25-2006, 02:40 AM   #166
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

After reading this post i stopped reading this thread. I think enough was said right here.
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Old 11-25-2006, 03:03 AM   #167
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

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I guess I've been misinformed from the start about poker. This guy is right! If you have more outs, you have the best hand. Realizing this, I must be playing way too tight. If my opponent overplays his AA and pushes preflop, and I look at my cards and just see a deuce, I'm going to call with that alone. I'll just keep the other card to the side because I won't need it since my 2 has three outs and my opponent's aces only have two.

I really think the OP is really going to help my game in the future.
underrated
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Old 11-25-2006, 02:08 PM   #168
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

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The information contained in this thread is largely untrue. Overcards aren't better because they have more outs, they are better because there are two different ranks and therefore they are more likely to make straights. Straights are better than pairs.
no
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:00 PM   #169
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

i am laughing at all the people trying to take this thread seriously.
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Old 11-26-2006, 04:34 PM   #170
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

whats up with the OP now? pwning at big games?
math teacher? poker pro?
i really want to know
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Old 11-30-2006, 10:31 AM   #171
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

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Dont laugh at the bluff call. When people call my bets i think oh [censored], i must be beat.
Definately! Like, if you call preflop with 27o you obviously are representing a stronger hand, therefore: Bluff call!
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Old 11-30-2006, 11:59 AM   #172
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

This forum is now FYAD.

Jesus god.

Can someone turn the background pink?

Oh, and jman, you forgot to account for the one overcard and one undercard hands. Like T5, but even the weaker ones like K2 are good because the only straight card they share is the ace, and since you're against a pair, it's probably not aces, so all four are there.

Just food for thought. Double straights are just as powerful as two overcards, but the reverse double implied odds aren't as bad because you've got the king.
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Old 11-30-2006, 12:55 PM   #173
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!1!!1

my new favorite post
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Old 11-30-2006, 01:02 PM   #174
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!1!!1

awesome, thanks for bumping this
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Old 12-22-2006, 06:28 AM   #175
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Re: STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!

outs to improve... theres 42 cards in a deck right???? so 6 outs to improve is not much ))) GO PAIRS!
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