Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
This is correct. Of course, he was getting 2:1 on his money, so preflop this was an EV neutral situation. And since you want to get your money in when you have the best of it, not when the pot odds are dead even, that makes this a fold.
By advocating folding Pocket Aces preflop,something no poker pro,no good player,would do,(unless it was on the bubble to make money,and in other extremely very very very rare situations,the situation you talk about not being one of them),no poker book,article,etc would advocate,u prove yourself a idiot.
As far as the math goes I will show you 2 ways of looking at each of the following:
Pocket pair vs overcards standard 88 vs KQ.Since 88 doesnt have to hit flop.Every card that doesnt help KQ to improve and helps 88 to hold up and win is a virtual out for 88.
Since there are 52 cards minus 18 cards dealt out in hand,at 9 hand table,18 from 52 is 34.Since KQ has 6 outs, the 6 outs are subtracted from 34,down to 28 cards.Minus the cards to come on board 5,because with each card that comes on the board,the whole situation changes and thw whole thing gets refigured out as far a chances to win go.So down to 23 cards.And if us the 2 4 rule of outs,u subtract 12 cards for 6 outs instead of just 6 cards for 6 outs.So down to 17.And you subtract the 2 burn cards.So down to 15 cards
So 88 really has 15 virtual outs to hold up and win to KQ's 6 outs.
15>6 6/15 or 6 divided by 15. So according to this,88 beats KQ about 60% of time all in preflop.
Now for the easier way:Poker Stove:
164,381,184 games 0.005 secs 32,876,236,800 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.223% 53.01% 00.21% 87145032 343884.00 { 88 }
Hand 1: 46.777% 46.57% 00.21% 76548384 343884.00 { KQs, KQo }
So either way 88 > KQ. But I do see 1 point that u got right,its basically a coinflip,and as such is not really a bad beat and players shouldnt complain about coinflip beats,because they happen and go both ways.
Now to AA vs KQ
Since KQ has not outs,the virtual out system that I used earlier wont work here.So here is what poker stove says:
164,381,184 games 0.005 secs 32,876,236,800 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 86.074% 85.87% 00.21% 141152028 337086.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 13.926% 13.72% 00.21% 22554984 337086.00 { KQs, KQo }
As u can see, AA beats KQ 86% of the time.So AA 86% > KQ's 14%
And I even see your 1 and only valid point here about whining and complaining about getting beat by KQ or AK or AQ AJ A10 KJ etc. While calling all in preflop with A10 KQ KJ are not good calling all in preflop hands,(except in certain exception situations)when players do call with those hands,its usually because they dont understand that they arent good calling hands.
Now where a player might have a gripe or complaint,is if a player knowingly and purposely called all in preflop with QJ Q10 J10 109 type hands in order to try and luck out suck out and outluck beat them,because they know they cant beat the other player legit.
Now in trying to prove your valid points about complaining and griping,dont be advocating stupid things like folding AA.It makes you a idiot,and u lose credibility.
Mike DH
