Hi all,

since I am getting smashed by variance, beeing way below EV (getting close to 20 BI after 20k hands) I am getting curious about using of cash out option.

Are you using it? In what scenarios, what pot sizes, with how much EV?

I have never used it, but I think it makes sence to use it in big pots with high EV, like +90% where you just don't risk to loose it all when you can have a 90%...

Like for example in hand below, where I am getting all in in 280 BB pot on turn with AA agains KK with 95,45% EV.


So do you have any guidelines for using it or something?


Thank you very much for answers

Don't do it man. This is considered to be poor etiquette and is generally not allowed at most poker tables. It can give an unfair advantage to the player who is going south, and it can also disrupt the flow of the game.

If a player is caught going south, they may be asked to return the chips to the pot, or they may be disqualified from the game.

If you don't want to have lots of chips on the line when you're 95% favourite you are playing stakes that are too high for you.

I play online at GG poker and there is this possibility.... I guess you are referring to live game, where I wouldn't even consider it

Yeah, maybe you are right

No I'm fully aware you play online poker, although the delivery method may be different, the game itself is fundamentally the same as live poker.

Therefore i'm just warning you
it's considered really bad poker etiquette going south.

I just hope you don't get disqualified cashing out when you are all in.

Given he wrote "just don't want to risk it all when you can have 90%" it seems like cashing out here is the online site agreeing to pay him a slightly discounted value of his ev for the hand so if he loses the hand he gets that while the winning player gets the pot while if he wins the hand he gets the pot but loses whatever the discount was. Gets done often at high stakes.

Fold river IMHO.

It was turn all in turn

You do understand he is talking bout online play, right?

Bro, are you trolling him, or just do not understand that in online games this is legal? The house is covering your bet if you lose, so no money is missing from the pot. If you are trolling well played, if not please step away from the KB.

Are you justifying cashing out before all cards are seen? That’s cheating

Just because something is legal doesn't make it right imo. I'm from the old school and I would never use this "going south" function online. My respect for the game and the players involved is just too damn high.

It is not cheating. You are either a liar or a fool for claiming it is when the mechanism has been described.

You can approve or disapprove as you desire but others don't need to respect your opinion any more than you respect their opinion.

Try doing this at a casino pal. People will laugh at your boomer-ass right before management bans your sober coffee drinking self

OK boomer. It's not cheating. It's not even unethical. It's just a way for the site to take more of your money and therefore something you should never be doing.

Still win the pot so I couldn't give a **** what other player does online and the site I play on has the tables with this feature clearly marked so by playing on these tables players agree to the condition.

yeah but just don't take chips off the table please. I learned this while watching Freddy Deeb on high stakes poker season 1 episode 9. It made a big impact on me and Freddy when they accused him of going south. Since that day I'm really against people going south at the tables. Either live or online, it's just bad etiquette.

Most sites have introduced this feature and the site I am on has the tables where this is active clearly marked so players who play on them tables accept that this practice is allowed.

Personally I have never used cashout while allin but I know if I play on those tables that others are entitled to do it and at the end of the day it does not affect me or my situation at the table.

It is key for players to remind themselves that if it is not a home game they do not get to decide the rules or etiquette. Eg. Does a golfer get to decide the etiquette at every golf club they visit? It is the same in poker.

Ok so this is how the cashout option works:

Sites either directly take a cut from your actual equity in the pot, which is something you dont want to do ever since you are just burning EV for reducing variance(unless its a crazy huuuge pot like 500bb+ and losing it would be a big impact on your roll/mental game in which case I think its justified)

or

They let you cashout your actual equity in the pot but they reduce your PVI in the background making your RB lower (this is what GG does).

So in either case its -EV to cashout but if you happen to get a huge pot that would reduce your EV in the future by making you drop stakes or have a big impact on your mental game then its justified imo

Also, it will never take money off the table. Site covers the money and pays the winner if you happen to lose

When you use the All in Cash Out option the site charges you an extra fee for the insurance.

I can personally guarantee you that if you use this option every time you are all in you will not make money playing poker. The fee adds up and kills your win rate over time.

I can also guarantee you that over time the odds run out according to their probabilities on online poker sites. The sites are heavily audited and over my playing career I ran at EV.

If the variance really bothers you mentally and emotionally it means that you are playing too high and you should drop down in stakes, until you get better at dealing mentally with the variance off the game.

It is most likely that if the site is allowing this then they are trying to trap you into breaking the rules so they can confiscate your balance. I would be VERY wary if I were you.

OP, you have a one pair hand and you get check raised on the turn, Baluga theorem would indicate this is an easy lay down, especially by river.

Excellent post that explains the feature very well, I to apologise to the OP for derailing his/her thread, it wasn't my intention to do that.

Yes you should not use the option every time. However let's do a simple example. You have a very large pot of such size that you know you will never play enough pots this size for luck to even out. Would you rather lock in a large profit at a cost of some of your ev in the pot or risk losing it all on bad luck. The poker skill was getting all the money in when you were a large favorite.. Do you really want luck to be able to offset your skill advantage?