Quitting poker: final reflections
02-15-2010
, 03:17 PM
02-15-2010
, 03:27 PM
02-15-2010
, 04:31 PM
what does this mean??? tl;dr
OP good for you for quitting before you wasted more time on this...
I see some valid points in the post but i have to say if you work hard enough and want something bad enough you can make it happen.... BUT then again its easier to be lucky then skilled at poker and not all of us are gifted with that blessing!!!
Take care in your future endeavors.
EJ
OP good for you for quitting before you wasted more time on this...
I see some valid points in the post but i have to say if you work hard enough and want something bad enough you can make it happen.... BUT then again its easier to be lucky then skilled at poker and not all of us are gifted with that blessing!!!
Take care in your future endeavors.
EJ
02-15-2010
, 05:55 PM
02-15-2010
, 06:03 PM
Quote:
OP is like a textbook for an attitude that will lead to failure in any endeavor.
Just to correct some false assertions in the OP:
*1% is an arbitrary number; the % of people who will succeed in poker is precisely the % that are willing to put forth the effort and have moderate intelligence or better. Just because OP can only see his own failure (and therefore assumes others will be like him) does not make this accurate.
*Grinding every day similar to an office job and studying off-table, working on one's game, reading books/forums, getting coaching, watching vids, studying HEM, doing Pokerstoves, etc. is not a "pipe dream". Your view of poker was probably a pipe dream. Smart kids who are willing to work are not thinking of being Matt Damon in Rounders, they are thinking of being Kinnish.
*By far the biggest mistake you made in your warrantless, baseless assertions was that only 5% of people "have what it takes" to become a successful poker player. I would argue that any person who is not "dumb", or clearly lacking average intelligence or better, who is willing to work very hard, can make near 6 figures in poker yearly or better after 1-2 years of dedication. And it's not close, because I have seen it and helped people do it. Poker is more about discipline than anything else. It takes hard work, I mean, really hard work--to be mentally tough, keep fighting, to learn how to learn, to figure out how to win. But whenever there is a pool of players so large as there is in poker, there is a great opportunity for success for anyone who simply wants to work hard. Just like anything else.
Btw, pretty sure Baluga and Leatherass would disagree with nearly everything in your post considering they both teach that anyone can succeed in poker if you just work hard. And if you work REALLY hard, you're gonna make a lot of money in poker. A whole lot.
*I can actually agree with you about the lifestyle of grinding in and of itself. This is why it's important to balance grinding with other endeavors, even another job, whether paid or voluntary. In and of itself grinding is no lifestyle, but it's certainly a hobby that can be the source of a person's income.
I'm sorry you have failed at poker. I agree that for you, moving on with your life is wisest.
M
Just to correct some false assertions in the OP:
*1% is an arbitrary number; the % of people who will succeed in poker is precisely the % that are willing to put forth the effort and have moderate intelligence or better. Just because OP can only see his own failure (and therefore assumes others will be like him) does not make this accurate.
*Grinding every day similar to an office job and studying off-table, working on one's game, reading books/forums, getting coaching, watching vids, studying HEM, doing Pokerstoves, etc. is not a "pipe dream". Your view of poker was probably a pipe dream. Smart kids who are willing to work are not thinking of being Matt Damon in Rounders, they are thinking of being Kinnish.
*By far the biggest mistake you made in your warrantless, baseless assertions was that only 5% of people "have what it takes" to become a successful poker player. I would argue that any person who is not "dumb", or clearly lacking average intelligence or better, who is willing to work very hard, can make near 6 figures in poker yearly or better after 1-2 years of dedication. And it's not close, because I have seen it and helped people do it. Poker is more about discipline than anything else. It takes hard work, I mean, really hard work--to be mentally tough, keep fighting, to learn how to learn, to figure out how to win. But whenever there is a pool of players so large as there is in poker, there is a great opportunity for success for anyone who simply wants to work hard. Just like anything else.
Btw, pretty sure Baluga and Leatherass would disagree with nearly everything in your post considering they both teach that anyone can succeed in poker if you just work hard. And if you work REALLY hard, you're gonna make a lot of money in poker. A whole lot.
*I can actually agree with you about the lifestyle of grinding in and of itself. This is why it's important to balance grinding with other endeavors, even another job, whether paid or voluntary. In and of itself grinding is no lifestyle, but it's certainly a hobby that can be the source of a person's income.
I'm sorry you have failed at poker. I agree that for you, moving on with your life is wisest.
M
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02-15-2010
, 07:03 PM
Quote:
I think the key to being a successful poker player is having FUN, not necessarily how much money you make. If you're not enjoying what you do, then you should quit and move on to something else whether that's poker or working @ McDonald's or being a porn star or a doctor or whatever.
I think it's a mistake to plan or try to go pro. I made a post recently on DeucesCracked, but I'll repost it here because I think it's worthwhile and applicable.
"I have some thoughts on the issue, but I am not a PRO by your definition, so take the advice with a grain of salt
Last year I made close to 10k on poker and started @ $2NL in January of 2009. This year, I began @ $100NL and just yesterday started playing $200NL and my goal is to make around $25k. Poker is a passion of mine, but it is NOT a job per se - I have a full time job and girlfriend, but still hope to fit in around 20 hours a week. My thoughts about going PRO and poker are that you should FIRST love the game and then naturally lead yourself that direction through hard work, hours at the table, some talent, and ultimately good results to support your decision to go PRO. I don't think it's a good idea to plan to go PRO.
As attractive as saying you're a professional poker player sounds, I think it can be a VERY tough job. The poker highs are very highs and the poker lows are very low. To make a living out of it, you HAVE to play. You're going to have to play on days when you're losing and it's just not fun. You're going to have to play on days when you'd just rather not think about poker. Not only do you have to play at those times, you have to be @ your best. Sure, I can't speak from experience as a PRO, but I've had MANY days where I've said to myself, "I'm glad I have a day job and don't HAVE to do this". My main point is that I think it's important for poker to always be FUN. If it's really a job, it's going to feel like a job. There are easier more fulfilling ways to make a living and poker is always there to be fun and bring in extra money for the dedicated players with skill.
As you're playing part-time and working on your game, if you really want to go pro, your game should naturally progress where you can make a living @ it because you've done it so often and have the bankroll and large sample size to prove it. You should have 6 months of living expenses set aside no matter what your profession. As for your bankroll, I'd want AT LEAST 100. And, yes, you need to have a plan to get better, but that should already be apart of your plan as an amateur, too.
I've started keeping a closer eye on my hourly wage and monthly income as a loose barometer - remember to include all income from poker including real money bonuses, hours played, and proper deductions for things like taxes, coaching, training sites, software, books, and the like. Once you're making about DOUBLE what you want to live off from putting in time as a hobby or side-job, then you're probably in a good spot because you'll have enough money to live AND build your bankroll, plus all the extra time you'll get from quitting your day job or school or whatever to either put in more time playing poker, studying poker, or just NOT playing poker so you still LIKE poker.
Also, don't underestimate things like the UIGEA or withdraw checks getting held up from poker sites or potentially bad customer support from poker sites. How much control of your life do you want to put in FullTilt's customer support's hands? There are many outside forces who don't want players to play poker period, let alone make a living off it, so that has to go into your thought process as well. What about no health care? No 401k? Games getting tougher? Less games available? What about burnout?
On the other hand, if you have a true love and passion for the game and prove yourself, there are MANY players making anywhere from a passable living to a decent living to a PLUSH lifestyle playing poker, so it definitely can be done. If you go that route, don't forget to consider LIVE play, too as at least a supplement to online. There is some merit to planning to go PRO, but I think ultimately letting it come to you is smarter. I just can't emphasize enough that whatever you do for your full-time job money, it should be something you like if not LOVE and don't underestimate the potential negative effect of the fun factor with poker when it becomes a job.
That's how I'm approaching it and I think I'd like to become PRO myself one day, but I'm definitely not forcing the issue and I've been having a BLAST so far
"
I think it's a mistake to plan or try to go pro. I made a post recently on DeucesCracked, but I'll repost it here because I think it's worthwhile and applicable.
"I have some thoughts on the issue, but I am not a PRO by your definition, so take the advice with a grain of salt
Last year I made close to 10k on poker and started @ $2NL in January of 2009. This year, I began @ $100NL and just yesterday started playing $200NL and my goal is to make around $25k. Poker is a passion of mine, but it is NOT a job per se - I have a full time job and girlfriend, but still hope to fit in around 20 hours a week. My thoughts about going PRO and poker are that you should FIRST love the game and then naturally lead yourself that direction through hard work, hours at the table, some talent, and ultimately good results to support your decision to go PRO. I don't think it's a good idea to plan to go PRO.
As attractive as saying you're a professional poker player sounds, I think it can be a VERY tough job. The poker highs are very highs and the poker lows are very low. To make a living out of it, you HAVE to play. You're going to have to play on days when you're losing and it's just not fun. You're going to have to play on days when you'd just rather not think about poker. Not only do you have to play at those times, you have to be @ your best. Sure, I can't speak from experience as a PRO, but I've had MANY days where I've said to myself, "I'm glad I have a day job and don't HAVE to do this". My main point is that I think it's important for poker to always be FUN. If it's really a job, it's going to feel like a job. There are easier more fulfilling ways to make a living and poker is always there to be fun and bring in extra money for the dedicated players with skill.
As you're playing part-time and working on your game, if you really want to go pro, your game should naturally progress where you can make a living @ it because you've done it so often and have the bankroll and large sample size to prove it. You should have 6 months of living expenses set aside no matter what your profession. As for your bankroll, I'd want AT LEAST 100. And, yes, you need to have a plan to get better, but that should already be apart of your plan as an amateur, too.
I've started keeping a closer eye on my hourly wage and monthly income as a loose barometer - remember to include all income from poker including real money bonuses, hours played, and proper deductions for things like taxes, coaching, training sites, software, books, and the like. Once you're making about DOUBLE what you want to live off from putting in time as a hobby or side-job, then you're probably in a good spot because you'll have enough money to live AND build your bankroll, plus all the extra time you'll get from quitting your day job or school or whatever to either put in more time playing poker, studying poker, or just NOT playing poker so you still LIKE poker.
Also, don't underestimate things like the UIGEA or withdraw checks getting held up from poker sites or potentially bad customer support from poker sites. How much control of your life do you want to put in FullTilt's customer support's hands? There are many outside forces who don't want players to play poker period, let alone make a living off it, so that has to go into your thought process as well. What about no health care? No 401k? Games getting tougher? Less games available? What about burnout?
On the other hand, if you have a true love and passion for the game and prove yourself, there are MANY players making anywhere from a passable living to a decent living to a PLUSH lifestyle playing poker, so it definitely can be done. If you go that route, don't forget to consider LIVE play, too as at least a supplement to online. There is some merit to planning to go PRO, but I think ultimately letting it come to you is smarter. I just can't emphasize enough that whatever you do for your full-time job money, it should be something you like if not LOVE and don't underestimate the potential negative effect of the fun factor with poker when it becomes a job.
That's how I'm approaching it and I think I'd like to become PRO myself one day, but I'm definitely not forcing the issue and I've been having a BLAST so far
"
02-15-2010
, 07:19 PM
02-15-2010
, 07:35 PM
02-15-2010
, 07:48 PM
02-15-2010
, 08:08 PM
02-15-2010
, 08:16 PM
02-15-2010
, 10:04 PM
02-15-2010
, 10:44 PM
02-15-2010
, 10:57 PM
02-16-2010
, 04:22 AM
Quote:
Hi,
I've been playing the game for 7 years now. I've been a SSNL grinder for about a year and a half. I've had big success and big failures. Altogether, I'm up about $10k over my time of playing. For that year and a half, I played/studied about 40 hrs/week. the waste that was the past 7 years of my life.
I've been playing the game for 7 years now. I've been a SSNL grinder for about a year and a half. I've had big success and big failures. Altogether, I'm up about $10k over my time of playing. For that year and a half, I played/studied about 40 hrs/week. the waste that was the past 7 years of my life.
FYL not being able to beat the game in 03