Next I'll let you [censored] my wife.

Are you serious? Do your own homework man... I ain't be your bitch.

agree with parlay, sigh is really all you can say at this point

Seriously the only good thing to come out of this thread.

I'm pretty sure that 12-tabling TAG's using HUDs also 'ruin the game' in the sense that they make it a lot less fun to play for most other players.

So do LAG's for players who just want to see cheap flops.

I'm not aware that a player (especially online) has any obligation to the other players other than to play within the site rules. So at Stars you can't use DB collected by others, at WSEX you can't use a HUD, at no site can you collude, use a bot or have multiple accounts etc..the suggestion that as a matter of poker ethics a player has an obligation stop playing in a way that is permitted by the site simply to make the game juicier/more fun/more profitable for other players is simply nuts.

And why stop at 20BB's, should we force players to buy in for 40? 60? 100? 200BB's? Each increase would increase the better deep-stack players' edge - is a 20BB buy-in unethical, but a 40BB one ethical?

It so happens that short-stacking is particuarly effective against players who have a high PFR%, which is the style adopted by most of the better players. So it pisses them off. It is annoying for them sure. But as some guy correctly said above - it's about as unethical as check-raising...

If I played Roshambo and my style was heavily scissor-based I might well try to convince folks that playing rock was unethical - but I would still be talking bollocks...

You should just lobby sites for more fixed 100BB buy-in tables. Whether they flourish or not will then depend on the market...can't say fairer than that..constant whining about shorties here just looks like special pleading...(mainly because it is)

gg

Thremp, somehow you racked up 8k posts without me having any [censored] clue who you are in any strat forum, and then you come here assaulting the MSNL all-star team? Let's look at the posters whose knowledge of poker apparently pale in comparison to yours:

jfish
MDMA
xorbie
Triumph

Please continue! I don't think you've taken any shots at Parlay yet and you obv have much more of a clue than him. Maybe if we're lucky cts will come offer his thoughts so you can tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about. You're a [censored] clown.

Dude. I don't know what to say. If this is your appeal to authority you blow. Your whole fanboy argument blows. I should really out your "all-star" team member, but sorry PMs stay PMs.

It's my appeal to authority because you're too [censored] ******ed to listen to some poker players that are all way smarter than you and are generous enough to participate in this community with the rest of us downies, so you don't leave me with many other options.

Heh, why don't you appeal to a real expert like kurosh or stinkypete?

GL getting them to talk.

i don't understand why shortstackers get pissed when we get angry at them. they should just keep to themselves and rack up the money that pokersites exploits give them.

why should they feel the need to defend themselves? what is the point of this arguing?

it is fairly clear 100xbb poker players of varying success hate shortstacking ratholers, so everyone just deal with it.

IMSA ur trolling of various CHOO CHOO is even annoying me at this point

threads like these are really making me grow disenchanted with the forums

Ok this was hi-larious.

See, you guys just don't get it. There are a lot of people who come online to play. Some for fun, some for profit (some both, some neither). Very few, with the exception of the loyal SS brigade, are coming in to play 20BB poker. That's not how poker is played in casinos, it's not how it's played at home games, that's not how it WAS played online. So there is at least, you can see, some reason for the complaint.

Of course games evolve. People c/r more. People 3bet preflop. Yes having 4 nit TAGs at my table can be annoying. But the point is that none of them are doing something that I myself cannot do. I can't take money off the table though, so by sitting when I'm trying to play a game you've effectively taken an unfair advantage when I am no longer capable of doing so.

It may be hard to find the exact cutoff point. I would say it's probably around 40bb, maybe 60bb. I don't particularly care, as that's neither here nor there. The fact is that you are arguing that just because in practice it is hard to find this point that the equally arbitrary 20BB figure is right and so let's stick with that. Keep in mind the poker site's only goal is to make money, so they don't care much to keep certain players from exploiting the games with these ******ed loopholes.

What pisses me (and others) off is that you guys come with this attitude of being somehow good at poker. Whoever had that post about [censored] his wife and homework or whatever demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about. You think it takes some sort of talent or dedication to Pokerstove a handrange? It takes 15 seconds. I will gladly play any SS HU for 20BB at a time. The point is that we can't. When I'm deep with a donk and two short stacks sit down, I'm just screwed. And you can be snively and say that makes you good somehow and that it's just like check raising, but get it through your head: it's just lame.

First part is true, but the rest is whatever. It's poker, people whine about bad beats, you have to expect this.

Post deleted by Gildwulf

What a [censored] gimmick account.

[quote]
If I played Roshambo and my style was heavily scissor-based...


-

wow

HEY EVERYONE LISTEN TO ME:

MDMA: you know I love you, but that might be the longest and worst argument I've ever read for anything.

Parlay/Tri/etc: What does flaming these guys do for you? You think it'll change their minds? The games have changed and as a side-effect people who used to be able to win at real poker no longer can so they need to try new things. They feed off of tags just like tags feed off of fish.

Just do what I do: slowroll them with the nuts every chance you get. I doubt any of you seriously believe you have any moral ground to stand on against ratholers.

Parlay it sounds like the fact that they think they're good pisses you off the most. That's weird. And if you're going to talk about fun, do you think the 45/12 LP fish is having a great time getting raised and 3bet all day?

And you know what? Before the games degrade into the 20bb push-fests you're all scared of, the sites will change the rules. People who want to play real poker will move to sites that allow it. It'll all work out.

Xorbie: Yes you can do what they do. You choose not to because you feel you have a bigger edge playing the way that you do, and that's true for anyone if you're good at the game.

Thremp: You are annoying and ******ed.


Imsa seems nice.

I would be happy to play you HU for 20 BB buyins any time you like. You make it sound like shortstacking is really easy and brainless. If it's so easy, why not do it yourself and make money? Why isn't everyone else doing it?

I really doubt it. Push-fests equal more hands per hour and players generally go broke less quickly the fewer BBs they have on the table.

You missed the point completely. The demand will be there for 50bb min-buy in tables or whatever so sites will create them if the games devolve to a certain point. Your argument is like saying a store should charge 80$ for a bag of chips because they make more money that way. You have to consider demand.

And don't try to argue that shortstacking is hard. I did it successfully for a while (didn't rathole) but it bored the hell out of me so I stopped. It's very easy. People like playing poker and like the chance for higher winrates, that's why they play real poker.

because you are making decidedly less money than people playing w/ a full stack. you havent had a single semi-intelligent post in this thread.

it is

loll

i dunno maybe because they can beat the game full-stacked? or has it been so long since you could do that that you've forgotten what that's like.