1/2 NL game:

Villain (~$300) opens to 12
HERO ($250) rereaises to 25
Folds back to Villain who 4 bets to 50
HERO thinks and decides to flat with JJ while putting villain on AA, KK or maybe AKs

Flop:
J 6 A rainbow

Villain instantly goes all in
Hero goes into the tank and finally folds JJ face up on table

Remaining players ask WTF are you doing?!?!?!?!?!

Villain tables AA faceup and asks why didn't you call?



Anyone else ever been put in this situation?
Luckily I was familiar with villain, and he was an older gentleman who played pretty straight forward. All he needed to do was check the flop and I would've fired $100 or so at him.

nice hero fold but why not flat preflop the raise instead of min 3bet, were probably already behind his 6x opening range

nit alert nit alert

nit

bad fold

.

I 3 bet to gain more information, which I received when he 4 bet. If I just flat the 12, I'm sure I would have lost most, or all of my stack on the turn and river. The way I played it, I lost 50 instead of 250

lol yeah who can be such an idiot to setmine for 1/5 of his stack preflop and fold once you flop your set.

wtf is happening with you 2+2. just terrible levels all over.

So, villain openshoves flop 2.5x pot and you deduce he has the nuts. LOL

My dog just puked on my shirt

I'm not really sure what's so bad with this play and my 'level'. I 3 bet to gain information, gained useful information to more accurately put my opponent on a range, and then used that preflop information along with the villain's action and body language on the flop to make a correct fold.

Poker is a game of incomplete information, I used all the information I had, and it worked out. Please tell me what's actually wrong with that. Also, I'm not so sure using 1/5 of my stack to setmine is a horrible play. Obviously I would have rather used less, but **** happens. It's not like I used 1/2 or 2/3 and then folded.

So are you one of those players who loses set over set and calls it a cooler?
I'm starting to think you might be. You're the guy at the table who thinks everything is a bad beat when in fact you had plenty of information from your opponent to make an intelligent fold.

EASY CALL

Worst Fold EVER. And I am being completely serious.

If you fold middle set in that spot for a single buy in at 1/2, then you shouldn't be playing at all. The fact that Villain actually had it doesn't matter; It is a snap call every single time even if you are 1000000% convinced it is a crying call. There are spots where you have no choice but to lose your money, and this is most certainly one of them.

If this is a serious post, then OP needs quit poker.

ban OP

OP, you say you put villain on AA, KK and possibly AKs. Against a shoving range of AA and AKs only, you're almost exactly a coinflip, so with 100$ in the pot, calling is majorly +EV. (you understand pot odds, right?)

And that's saying he never 4bets AKo in that spot, which if he does takes your equity to 77%....(see combinatorics, many more combos of AK than of AA)

So yeah, horrible horrible fold.

I think most of you didn't read my entire OP. Perhaps you missed the part where I said Villain was an older gentleman that I was familiar with. In my experience with the OLDER gentleman whom I was FAMILIAR with NEVER bluffed. When he 4 bet me preflop it screamed AA or KK.

Had it been some young punk with a hoody listening to an iPod I'm sure the hand would've have played out completely differently.

What I still can't understand is how people are saying 'bad fold' or 'snap call even if you know you're beat.' Especially to the person who says 'snap call even if you know you're beat,' perhaps you should stop playing poker if you're willing to give up 100bb knowing that you're beat.

Again, the familiar situation lead to my decision. It's similar to when player holds only A high and calls an aggrodonks all in on the river. Most people would say calling with A high is crazy, but if you KNOW YOUR OPPONENT it makes it a hell of a lot easier.

BTW, I love playing with people like you who can't make a good fold given enough information.

OP is leveling obviously guys. Did no one read the post where he goes "I MIN3BET TO GET MORE INFO"

Read the OP again, you're missing information.
His 4 bet condensed his range to AA, KK, or AKs.
His shove on the flop condensed his range to AA (remember the flop was rainbow...)
Also, I was familiar with the Villain. There was no way in hell he would shove with KK with an A on board in a 4 bet pot.

So no, calling is not majorly +EV if his range is AA. I'd be drawing to one out, but I'm sure you figured that out by now.

So wait, what is he doing on the flop with AKs, 100$ in the pot and 200$ effective behind? Checking?

Gotcha, that's why his flop shoving range is AA only. Makes sense.

Also, how does the flop being rainbow prevent him from having AKs? Are you ok? You should get some sleep.

edit: I never said he shoves KK on that flop; learn how to read, this is embarrassing.

OP you played that hand as bad as you could on every possible street and every possible bet. The ignorance in your logic knows no bounds. Perhaps you just want to be a hero so bad and feel smart to yourself. I can imagine you being the punk kid with pouty lips and squinty eyes trying to make a TV poker face every hand, wearing a hoody, a gangster cap, chains and dollar store sunglasses with gangster stickers on them.

Anyways on to the hand.

What position were you in? Was Villain an old guy in EP? Then why the hell would you min-3bet his EP 6xBB raise? While you should be set-mining, to get everyone else out of the hand including the villain unless he has QQ+/AKs? If Villain was a LAG fish I would understand the isolation play because then you're also doing it for value and a one-overcard flop doesn't scare you.

When Villain 4bet's to $50, you've already put in $25, it now costs you $25 to see a pot of $75, giving you 3-to-1 direct odds. You basically need another 5-to-1 or $125 in implied odds to call. So that's not a bad investment.

You then flop your set and Villain over-pot shoves. Did you really put him on the stone nuts on a dry rainbow flop? Anything on the turn still gives Villain virtually the nuts against your range given how the hand played out, and then some out to make boat.

Keep making those folds and I am sure you will make/save a lot of money in the long run. Not to mention the bad beat jackpot possibilities where the requirements are Aces full of Jacks or better.

You range him AA, KK, AKs. You flop a set. You now beat 2/3 of the hands you range him on. You fold.

...does not compute.

obvious level is obvious

His range was AA, KK or AKs BEFORE the flop with the information I had.
His range CHANGED when I got MORE INFORMATION.
Hand ranges change on every street. Most of the time they get smaller. Sometimes they get bigger when you pick up a back door draw.
Does that compute?

If the flop was 348 rainbow, would you still fold JJ post-flop?

Hence the question, how can you take AKs away from his range on the flop? Let's compute that for a minute....lol

OP never bets without the nizzles so he assumes everyone else wont bet without the nizzles too