I just got off teamviewer with Jalex. He asked me to post my chat logs and after thinking for a long time, I decided not to because it doesn't prove anything to my favour, they are very personal, and it involves my friend's stuff too. I also think I will be innocent regardless.

Jalex tells me I will regret it very much, and no doubt he will say that there's no reason not to reveal it and that I am definitely guilty, but I honestly don't think I can reveal my friend's chatlogs.

7.5k seems like something very important to me. Surely you realize when I say I lie I cheat I steal it's not a literal stealing of money or goods? It was one of my more angsty periods, can something like this really be relevant? If anything this makes sense with my using of multiple identities.

I did specifically say "IM'd", right, so that's not a lie. I explained my relationship with StoppedClock with Jalex, but I have a sinking feeling he will not believe it. I will post what I sent him:

I have sent the money to stoppedclock that she lost at 1/2, but that's because she deposits through me.

Neither I or accounts I have correlation with have sent breeezzz the money he lost near the time he played (he has his own money I assume, my transfers were smaller, +100, -70, and +150 from the Nostalgica account, 8-9 days before the propbet when I haven't heard of it), and I have not received a single transfer from OP. I'm instrumental in funding one live player's plunge into cash games, suspicious? Yeah, but all I did was do a transfer.

So even in your example there would be cheating involved and your friend would have to lose the bet because you tried to cheat the bettors. DUCY?

NH sir.

What makes you think we talk much about poker at all? Or that if we did we'd talk about this prop bet. This prop bet is from someone I used to know in highschool and occasionally talk to on msn, I don't even play 200NL or 6max, why would I care? *until it became a huge problem and controversy. I cared enough to watch, but I had no investment in it and it wasn't a ridiculous task or HU challenge or anything.

no **** sherlock?

does it make my buddy guilty of wrong doing though?

carry on.

As a result of some of what has been revealed in this thread, Grinderschool will be removing Sol Reader from his position as an instructor. We do not suspect he is guilty of aiding in cheating on the prop bet (if indeed that occurred). However the other information that has been uncovered here is enough to require ties to be severed. More details are available on our official press release: http://grinderschool.com/grinderscho...l-reader.shtml

Jeffrey "JGB146" Blake
Founder & Admin of Grinderschool

I'm pretty sure I will be burnt at the stake now because I have connections with these players, but all I have done is do transfers for these players (and only one large one), players who I thought did not know each other, and to my knowledge, don't.

I also chimed in trying to persuade people to believe in my friend.

That is the extent of my involvement. There's no more I can provide. This cannot be considered "concrete/absolute proof" that I had any involvement with cheating, because a person (me) who doesn't know anything could easily end up making transfers with people. What they do with it is beyond my control.

I expect people to jump to conclusions or figure that this is too big of a coincidence, but by now I have given up all the information I can (I chose not to give up chat logs, and by now it's no longer "pure"), and I do not think this can possibly be enough to condemn someone. Just because you send money to someone who lost money and have also sent money to the person who won the money cannot possibly mean I am guilty.

I apologize for the bad press you have received due to me.

Ro I believe that you didn't cheat in this prop bet nor have any connection to the money dumping.

But lying about facts concerning the case to help your friend is bad, as is lying in general no matter how little in your mind they matter. Its not like integrety is a sliding scale, you either have it or you don't.

RoSeeker,

Time to start another account.

Thank you for your vote of confidence. I've realized that I've completely destroyed my believability, and I am suffering for it.

I don't think there is anything left I can do but to say: "I may be dodgy, but I am innocent."

Oh, and I am sorry about that video and linking you with it somehow..

I have learnt that I should stay away from saying things. I will stay away from the Nostalgica account and multi-accounting or posting at all on 2+2, as I had said before.

All I can say now is that I am innocent and do NOT deserve to have my personal information published.

To clarify really quick before I post more thoroughly later (I actually have to get some work done), here's what he is referring to:

After discussion about transfer histories, I asked him to show me his IM log with Gary. I re-iterated that Gary's SN and unrelated information in chat would be completely covered under the $10k I escrowed (which is why I made sure that got done today).

He thought for a long time, and ultimately refused. Since he referred to me saying 'he'll regret it', and I risk coming off as a 'omg scumbag you asked for his IM history!'.....here's the relevant chat from teamviewer, completely unedited other than removing sections about transfer histories/his moneybookers account and our respective teamviewer ID's.

[snip discussion about transfer histories]

jalexand42: i'd like to know if you store instant messenger history and if you will show me your history with gary

roseeker: I do sometimes

jalexand42: it doesn't log everything?

roseeker: I use my mobile phone, I go on messengerfx
roseeker: and I go on intenret cafes a lot
roseeker: I've been on the move so I don't usually have it

jalexand42: also, his messenger SN
jalexand42: certainly falls under information not disclosable

roseeker: uhm I'm not sure I can give
roseeker: yeah

jalexand42: or i forfei the 10k
jalexand42: to be clear.
jalexand42: because i don't ahve that information

roseeker: I am not sure if chat transcript is the best idea...
roseeker: it can't prove anyhting and to be fair we said things in rather private manner
roseeker: I mean I'm trying my best not to be "shady"
roseeker: but there was the swearing and stuff like what to do, we were panicking etc

jalexand42: i don't care if you called me a ***** idiot

roseeker: I don't think it's fair for you to ask for info like that
roseeker: especially when I don't have it
roseeker: all of it
roseeker: most of it, in fact

jalexand42: well
jalexand42: if you're innocent, showing me a chat log helps with motive that you are innocent
jalexand42: because if you are innocent there's nothing implicating in it
jalexand42: other than maybe hating me
jalexand42: and that's not guilt

roseeker: well he said things like forfeiting the bet
roseeker: or redoing it
roseeker: which he said in the thread too...

jalexand42: right

roseeker: + I don't have his permission
roseeker: I mean
roseeker: "permission" is strange but like...

jalexand42: well this is your only opportunity to show that

roseeker: okay let me think about it

jalexand42: after this conversation, it's potentially damanged
jalexand42: damaged

roseeker: yeah I know

jalexand42: which is why i did it this way :P

roseeker: guh

jalexand42: as i stated, i can't use screen shots

roseeker: akaskngas
roseeker: the thing is I haven't said anything but it doesn't mean anything
roseeker: I don't think I'd even used this laptop the past
roseeker: oh right
roseeker: we talked on skype over voice chat
roseeker: and none of this recorded

jalexand42: yeah it obviously doesn't prove anything
jalexand42: but it does show willingness

roseeker: I'm sorry I'd rather not show
roseeker: I haven't spoken to him about it
roseeker: wait

jalexand42: i mean if you're innocent, you have something to gain here

roseeker: yeah I'm sorry, you must think I'm 100% guilty now or something
roseeker: yeah I do

jalexand42: and if you're guilty, you guys might as well come clean lol
jalexand42: right now, independent people would judge you guilty, so it's time to take some risks if you are innocent

roseeker: Well idk if he is innocent

jalexand42: i personally don't really care either way, but i want to see the truth out

roseeker: I really can't I mean
roseeker: I don't think this will help me at ALL
roseeker: aside from me showing you everything you ask
roseeker: I think chat logs are too much
roseeker: well

jalexand42: that's up to you, i'm telling you it would make a big difference

roseeker: yeah I see

jalexand42: but this is the ONLY chance

roseeker: jesus

jalexand42: because as soon as we d/c, you can delete anything
jalexand42: right now, i'm pretty confident if you show me IM/skype/whatever logs
jalexand42: they haven't been doctored

roseeker: Yeah
roseeker: Can I think about it a bit more?

jalexand42: if you are innocent why are you thinking about it?
jalexand42: i put up 10k i won't **** with you

roseeker: ffs
roseeker: I really want to but I can't
roseeker: it's my friend's convos too
roseeker: you're going to say I have no reason not to but I do recall he says lots of random stuff in it and I haven't spoken to him recently
roseeker: but he's still a friend, idk if he is innocent or not, but showing chat logs
roseeker: You say I'm guilty if I don't do this, but I am not sure about that since I am not.
roseeker: Sorry I won't do it

jalexand42: I setup a structure where i can't disclose unrelated information
jalexand42: So therefore, this should be a safe environment to show me priviledged stuff
jalexand42: I'm telling you if +I+ was innocent

roseeker: It's not the disclosure of information, it's that it's not just my decision, it's also my friend's
roseeker: + if he's incriminated I am guessing it's on me.
roseeker: You keep saying why I don't come and talk, why I "stonewalled" myself
roseeker: the thing is I haven't done anything wrong so I don't think I need to give something like chatlogs up
roseeker: the transfers don't prove anything either

jalexand42: nothing individually proves anything
jalexand42: but what do you think is going to happen when i explain there are transfers to StoppedClock?

roseeker: well I can't show you my IP history, and stars has that
roseeker: Well everyone will jump on it and say something about it
roseeker: idk

jalexand42: I'm just telling you, if you ARE innocent

roseeker: Thing is I haven't lied about that

jalexand42: you're missing a huge opportunity
jalexand42: yeah but you didn't disclose it

roseeker: Well I'm innocent, I can take that risk, I really don't think what I did here.
roseeker: Let's stop talking about that
roseeker: I know you think I am guilty
you are just trying to sound like you might think I am innocent so I say something stupid probably

jalexand42: lol you're giving me too much credit

roseeker: Well I am, and I'll show you what I promised.
roseeker: well it's the same argument
roseeker: I don't want much to do with finding out if stoppedclock militiarusha or breeezzz are innocent
roseeker: I just wnat to prove that I have nothing to do with it


[snip discussion about moneybookers account]


jalexand42: not really sure what else there is to ask
jalexand42: kind of sad you didn't want to take up the IM offer

roseeker: Look, idk what you think about me right now, but I am very certain stars will declare me clean, and it's entirely possible that some of

the other people aren't

jalexand42: well here's the deal, right now the EVIDENCE points to something going on
jalexand42: and if you are protecting them you are 100% guilty too

roseeker: I don't know of anything

jalexand42: fair enough

roseeker: I'm going to disconnect before I change my mind

jalexand42: lol

roseeker: ****, I am going to
roseeker: I will regret it won't I?
roseeker: asnasbga

jalexand42: not if you are innocent
jalexand42: i'm 100% not trying to **** you

roseeker: I mean I will regret not showing you

jalexand42: yes you will

roseeker: uh huh
roseeker: Good day, sir.








This is what I don't get dude, you 'think' you will be innocent? wtf.

Basically it seems like this:
Gary cheated, RoSeeker knew but wasn't involved/profiting from cheating.

Do I got that right?

Idk if this has been asked and or answered yet, but please explain how Gary has lost $400 to you.

From the PR:

Although we feel Sol Reader is innocent in the charge that he helped a friend cheat on a prop bet, other issues have forced our hand. After talking with Sol Reader on Saturday morning about this controversy, it appeared that he was simply being defamed in the TwoPlusTwo forums. He explained to us that Nostalgica was his true account and RoSeeker was his friend's account. He later contradicted this statement in a post in this TwoPlusTwo thread.

He is guilty as ****, immediately if asked for logs an honest person wouldn't mind giving them up. He stalls from the beginning stating different reasons why logs may be incomplete then he says he would but cannot breach his friends privacy... theres a frickin 10k escrow on not breaching privacy in place for exactly that.

This is a huge nitpick, obviously I meant declared innocent. I am/was stressed. I was looking for a word, acquitted, maybe?

We played HU against each other. We had a 4 tabling HU match with each other, I THINK last year. You can see it on PTR. We also playing PLO before the prop bet.

this is a typo by the PR guy right?

Maybe gary and roseeker have a gay relationship?

or theyre incredibly guilty. He does make it sound like he knew gary was going to cheat but wasnt profiting from it

Also, Roseeker, as i said, you had to release chatlogs, that refusal is just so ******ed

yeah thats ok, just that one guy being an asshat I think (although if you could remove the video, it was supposed to be private iirc )

And regarding the chat logs, I don't think this is the time to be honourable trying to protect your friends privacy if you do care about your reputation at this point.

Jalex is under a 10k penalty not to grief militiarusha, and he has no incentive to do so at all.

The evidence thusfar is overwhelming. That's why I would never bet on one of these prop bets. It's for certain this is not the first time that a premeditated collaboration to beat the masses out of thousands has happened. This group just wasn't that sharp.

No, I told him Nostalgica was my real account at first, because I used it to make videos. I was hoping I could still coach at that point. Not anymore.

in b4 LIARRRrrr

edit:

I can't use chatlogs anymore, they wouldn't mean anything, and I went back and checked and it turns out I've only got one part where he said something about multi-accounting FB and I was spazzing out because Jalex found it. Whatever, they shouldn't mean anything in the first place.

No, it is not a typo. That was the explanation we were given, several hours before any post was made on here about the two accounts. That this explanation was exactly the opposite of the one given on here is one of the many issues that led us to the decision to let him go.

Jeffrey "JGB146" Blake
Founder & Admin of Grinderschool

ty for clarifying

relax bud, it's just an internet conversation. don't act like you two we're discussing classified information, this isn't hollywood. nobody cares what your opinions on the latest season of the wire are.

frankly you should be more emabrassed your rep is tarnished because you refused you release some mundane conversation histories.