Useless River Debate. - Medium Stakes Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Other Poker Games Mid-High Stakes Limit

Useless River Debate.

Post Reply Subscribe

...

07-21-2008 , 05:51 PM

9.5fingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 5,350

Commerce $20-$40. Villian C limps in from EP. She limps and calls a lot. Joker loves spending time with her at the table. Villian A from the other hand calls OTB. I raise A

in the BB.

Flop comes K

b/c/c

Turn is Q

b/c/c

River is 2

Go.

Quote

07-21-2008 , 05:59 PM

BigBadBabar

California Elephant

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 21,688

you still have the toppest pair with the toppest kicker. bet again for value. all draws missed and bad live players are often passive so there is little utility in going for a checkraise.

Quote

07-21-2008 , 05:59 PM

bisonbison

banned

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 14,382

Did the debate happen after you bet and there was a call and a fold?

Quote

07-21-2008 , 06:17 PM

djeric1

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 109

I bet here, to get more money in the pot from hands that are afraid to bet, but will call... weaker kings, a random seven, or a 55/66 type hand that just doesnt want to believe you.

As far as inducing a bluff, since villain OTB is somewhat observant, how often will he see you check/fold 8BB pots after having initiative the whole way? I think it looks like you're check/calling here, and villain should be able to see that...

Quote

07-21-2008 , 07:02 PM

9.5fingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 5,350

i think there is some debate between b/f and c/c. Obv. J10, diamonds are draws but how many worse kings are hanging around?

Quote

07-21-2008 , 08:04 PM

thirddan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 11,695

what do you mean how many worse kings are hanging around? if they made it this far they are going to call one more...

Quote

07-21-2008 , 08:14 PM

9.5fingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 5,350

Ok, I bet obv. But when I told the hand to Joker his first reaction was c/c the river.

My point was not that they wouldn't call a river bet with a K (lol) but it was that doesn't the way the hand was played tilt the ranges a little bit to Q/busted draw that c/c is a extremely close 2nd choice? I never said these players were passive so at least some of the time another K raises the flop (as well as a draw).

Quote

07-21-2008 , 08:16 PM

tradingman123

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 294

I think this is a very standard bet. Sorry the button raised the river and showed QJ, pretty weird they didn't raise the turn.

Quote

07-21-2008 , 08:21 PM

schroedy

adept

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 906

Quote:

Originally Posted by tradingman123

I think this is a very standard bet. Sorry the button raised the river and showed QJ, pretty weird they didn't raise the turn.

The button definitely doesn't have the Q (or if he does, he won't have the chips for long). That is the hand that stands to get two more bets out of a turn raise.

I am not sure how MP beats OP, but if there is a bigger hand here, that's where it is.

Or at least that would be my read.

Quote

07-21-2008 , 08:24 PM

#10

9.5fingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 5,350

Nothing to be sorry about I lose the same amount b/f or c/c, not being results oriented.

Quote

07-21-2008 , 08:54 PM

#11

private joker

Most Definitely

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 25,244

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgrohman

Ok, I bet obv. But when I told the hand to Joker his first reaction was c/c the river.

Yeah, but that's because I was thinking of ways to own Tina, the nastiest witch to grace the Commerce 20 game in years.

But I quickly realized b/f is the right play. Tina will call with any K and the other guy will usually have a busted straight draw or a Q. If he has the Q you'll hear about it and can easily fold, and if he has a BSD he won't bluff with it if you check, so betting at least gets a call from the one weaker K out there.

Quote

07-21-2008 , 11:02 PM

#12

danspartan

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,851

Bet.

Can we name commmon villians? I'm suddenly craving alpha-bits reading your posts.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...