Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Turns too foldy? Turns too foldy?

08-17-2019 , 03:22 PM
I raise TT UTG, UTG+1 re-raises, LP calls, CO caps, it folds back to me and I call. All others call. Four of us see a flop of K73. Checks to the capper who bets, I call. The two others call. Turn is a 9. It checks to the bettor who bets again.

Is my turn fold correct? I often feel like the victim of double barrel bluffs, as I find folds on turns.

Thoughts about bluff check-raising flops and bluff check-raising turns to counter this?

Last edited by BigBadBabar; 08-19-2019 at 12:06 AM. Reason: i deleted results
Turns too foldy? Quote
08-17-2019 , 04:32 PM
Remove the results. I would pay the man his money in this spot. Any king is raising the flop, so you are only worried about him, and I’m not convinced he can’t be bluffing here given how little interest anyone has shown in this hand.
Turns too foldy? Quote
08-18-2019 , 01:39 PM
I think if turn is a call, this would indicate that a flop check raise is imperative to knock out the others(who apparently have ranges wide enough to fold that turn a non zero frequency).

That said, I think too often you're in second or third place here at the turn call/fold decision. You don't have the information that utg+1 and LP would fold before you call. That's why I think it's a fold and note the 88 as overaggressive preflop and on the turn.
Turns too foldy? Quote
08-18-2019 , 01:48 PM
Reads important here.
Turns too foldy? Quote
08-18-2019 , 08:06 PM
Tough spot with you acting immediately after the capper.

Nobody besides capper has shown any strength on the flop so in a vacuum I would be tempted to call. Absent any reads calling or folding in this spot can’t be too right or wrong.
Turns too foldy? Quote
08-18-2019 , 11:29 PM
Just call the turn and call most rivers. You usually lose but the pot is huge.

Don't bluff. This is neither the right texture nor the right part of your range.
Turns too foldy? Quote
08-19-2019 , 08:47 AM
I think calling is good here because if anyone raises behind you, they probabky have to have a king beat. So you are likely to get to showdown. Raising yourself is bad because we have to fold to a 3bet and that makes no sense.
Turns too foldy? Quote
08-19-2019 , 12:13 PM
i think the first guy almost never has AK, because he probably would raise the flop. i think it's likely he has QQ/JJ, but he is more likely to have AQ and other worse holdings. i guess a cautious KQs can be thrown in too. i'd say ur ahead of this guy at least half the time.

the 2nd guy is less likely to have AK/QQ/JJ, because of the line he took pre and post. just based on generalizing, my hunch is he's probably playing a wide range here, because he didn't cap. even if he isn't wide, he probably has enough aq (or other ax), suited broadways, and whatever else in his range as well. i'd imagine ur ahead almost always against this guy.

as for the capper, it would be nice to have an idea of what hes doing it with. if his range is TT+, AKo+ (which fits the description of a lot of players) then ur drawing to 2 outs at best.

absent any reads, my default is just to pay off, because there's 10.75 BB in the pot and i have a decent holding in a big pot and i only have to get through the capper who might just be nuts and i dont have to be right that often.

if someone check raises after u call the turn, i'd suspect 99 a ton of the time (or some weirdly slowplayed kk/77). i probably fold now since now u have to dodge 2 ppl.
Turns too foldy? Quote
08-25-2019 , 07:37 PM
This seriously depends on the type of game it is, and the types of players your opponents are.

If they are solid tight players you are almost certainly way behind. Their ranges are too small, and contain almost only hands that beat you. What are you hoping for? That two opponents both have AQs and the third has 99? You probably played it well.

If this is a wild and crazy game, it's different. You are probably (>50%) still losing, but you might not be, the pot is 17 small bets, and is only going to get bigger. You have too much equity to fold, so you need to increase your chances of winning the pot. Specifically, you need to get QJ, QT, Q9, J9, etc, etc, etc to fold. So you either should have checkraised the flop (if you think that they will fold this trash to 2 small bets) or you should checkraise the turn (if they won't). Note that QJ is right to call the two flop bets if they know that both their cards are live... but they don't know that. Check-calling both the flop and turn only makes sense of you are against extreme calling stations who would call 2 bets with QJ (even bad players stop and think before cold-calling 2 turm bets... and 2 undercards with no draw is pretty easy to muck)

When the pot is big you need to maximize your chances of winning it. Stop trying to save bets (re-evaluate if you get 3-bet, of course). There are too many cards that can kill you if you do happen to be winning. Another overcard with 3 opponents is disasterous.

My point here is, when you check-called (rather than check-raising) the flop, you should have already had a plan.
Turns too foldy? Quote

      
m