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Turn play Turn play

06-24-2023 , 12:04 PM
Currently 7 handed.

I open AsJd UTG, A solid LAG/TAG 3 bets from the CO, it's folded to the BB who calls. I call.

Jc6c5h...I check, CO bets, BB folds, I CR, CO calls....I don't believe he has a 3 bet range on the flop but I haven't played with him much.

Jc6c5hQc....I check, He bets, and I call. I felt like the value of my hand shrunk on this turn and I didn't want to call two bets.

Jc6c5hQc2d...I check, he bets, and I call. He confidently bet the turn and river and had no fear that I was going for a screw play. I think I have too much hand to fold and I did give him some rope to bluff.

Is my turn check correct?

Anybody wait till the turn to raise on this board?
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06-24-2023 , 12:34 PM
Yes turn check was good.

Also, I don’t know how good you think CO is, the better they are, I would lead to the less they will have a 3! On the flop. They are in position and won’t miss value on turn or river if you dont bet them.

I showdown this and expect to lose a lot. I might actually not raise flop and just play this hand like a bluff catcher depending on what how I think CO plays.
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06-24-2023 , 05:42 PM
Nh
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06-25-2023 , 01:12 PM
i just c/c flop, turn and river
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06-25-2023 , 11:18 PM
Eh, I think we're way too high up in our range to c/c three streets, particularly since he will check back the river with ace high or worse pairs a lot. You can also donk check bad turns (like this one) a lot, which is particularly helpful when you are dealing with a guy who defaults to calling an XR in position and raising the turn.

If I were to play this hand like a bluff catcher, I would donk an A on either big street and donk a J river (but XR a J turn).
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06-26-2023 , 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asmitty
Eh, I think we're way too high up in our range to c/c three streets, particularly since he will check back the river with ace high or worse pairs a lot. You can also donk check bad turns (like this one) a lot, which is particularly helpful when you are dealing with a guy who defaults to calling an XR in position and raising the turn.

If I were to play this hand like a bluff catcher, I would donk an A on either big street and donk a J river (but XR a J turn).
whats your flop c/r range on this board, 99+?

i can see a wide flop cr strat being good in a bb vs. LP raise or in a MP raise- LP 3 bet simply because people dont like being cr'd a lot and ranges are wider. seems odd to do it though when you raise UTG and somebody 3bets.

never thought much about what ranges to check turns on what cards after the flop cr gets called though. might be an interesting discussion. i assume if you CR 99 on this board you check all Q, K, A turns?
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06-26-2023 , 09:44 AM
We're certainly not check-raising a range that is just 99+. We have straight and flush draws we want to raise as bluffs. (If you don't have draws on this board, you're playing way too tight.) We also, in theory, should have a small check/raise/fold range, although it might be like one or two hands.

OTOH, what do we have that is stronger than AJ? JJ, 66, and maybe 55 if that is in our UTG7 opening range. Presumably we are 4-betting AA-QQ in this three way pot, so we can't have that. Seems to me that AJ is such a strong part of our range here that it would be a c/r/4b, unless we don't have a 4b range.

We have a lot of other hands that are in the range of top pair worse kicker through middle pair that we can distribute between check/raise and check/call.
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06-26-2023 , 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardinthepaint
We're certainly not check-raising a range that is just 99+. We have straight and flush draws we want to raise as bluffs. (If you don't have draws on this board, you're playing way too tight.) We also, in theory, should have a small check/raise/fold range, although it might be like one or two hands.

OTOH, what do we have that is stronger than AJ? JJ, 66, and maybe 55 if that is in our UTG7 opening range. Presumably we are 4-betting AA-QQ in this three way pot, so we can't have that. Seems to me that AJ is such a strong part of our range here that it would be a c/r/4b, unless we don't have a 4b range.

We have a lot of other hands that are in the range of top pair worse kicker through middle pair that we can distribute between check/raise and check/call.
I agree with this. I don't c/r all of my draws on this board but would probably c/r most of my straight draws and some flush draws.

Ultimately, reasonable minds can differ about how to carve up your range between c/r and c/c on this texture, but I don't think there's any viable argument that AJ is not a c/r. Your hand is just way too strong.
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06-26-2023 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asmitty
I don't c/r all of my draws on this board but would probably c/r most of my straight draws and some flush draws.
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply we're raising all of them, but I do think we want to raise a fair number of them. My point was more that it's not just 99+ which a previous poster suggested.
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