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02-27-2018 , 01:51 AM
20/40 laggy fish preflop, but pretty straight forward post, opens UTG+1 8 handed, I three bet AQo in the cutoff. He calls.

Flop is AJT, he check/calls.

Turn is a 7 putting up a flush draw. He donks, I call.

River is Qr. He bets again. Value raise?
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02-27-2018 , 01:59 AM
I would call


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02-27-2018 , 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
20/40 laggy fish preflop, but pretty straight forward post, opens UTG+1 8 handed, I three bet AQo in the cutoff. He calls.

Flop is AJT, he check/calls.

Turn is a 7 putting up a flush draw. He donks, I call.

River is Qr. He bets again. Value raise?
As played i would call. I would raise the turn though
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02-27-2018 , 09:57 AM
I would probably raise the turn as well. This is often Ace worse kicker or A9 or A7 that picked up a gutter or maybe a picked up combo draw. I think the turn is close and depends on what your read of his donk is. Is it sinister? Is it testing the waters? Is it a bluff?

I just call the river. I get your want to do so but I think the action is gonna go b/3b or b/f more often than b/c with worse.
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02-27-2018 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig
I would probably raise the turn as well. This is often Ace worse kicker or A9 or A7 that picked up a gutter or maybe a picked up combo draw. I think the turn is close and depends on what your read of his donk is. Is it sinister? Is it testing the waters? Is it a bluff?

I just call the river. I get your want to do so but I think the action is gonna go b/3b or b/f more often than b/c with worse.
My read was that he liked the 7 so either A7, J7, T7, or AX that picked up a flush draw.
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02-28-2018 , 01:52 PM
Straight forward player --> he can beat most hands on this river. I'd guess he has some weird hand like QK, T9, or Aa. I don't think many straight forward players vbet hands worse than aq. Just call.
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03-01-2018 , 08:33 PM
This seems much closer to a fold than a value raise. Actually even closer to a bluff raise than a value raise. But I guess a crying call is in order. He'd have to be very LAG preflop for than 7 to help him.
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03-01-2018 , 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
This seems much closer to a fold than a value raise. Actually even closer to a bluff raise than a value raise. But I guess a crying call is in order. He'd have to be very LAG preflop for than 7 to help him.
What hands bet the turn and then improve the river with a queen? If he had two pair already, I’m now winning. If he had a king and a pair, his donk on the turn doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Other than this hand, I saw him limp a bunch, open K5s in Early position, and cold call AA out of the small blind to a EP raise. He then dinked a K high flop and called down a raise
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03-01-2018 , 08:49 PM
I don't think most straightforward players would be betting the river with just a weak two pair. Although somewhat odd, I find it more likely they would donk a turn that didn't really help them with a pair + straight draw.

I think I have seen this play called the "old man's check-raise": check-call the flop, and donk the turn. When I see it, it is more often the guy just really liked his hand on the flop than that he really liked the turn card.

But really it seems like maybe this guy just isn't that straightforward and plays in an odd way that you would want to figure out if you played with him regularly. I would be curious to know results after the discussion is finished.
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03-02-2018 , 12:07 AM
River seems like a call per description that villain is LAG PF and TAG/TAP post flop.

Based on on above I think I would call turn unless villain has history of donking turn with very narrow polarized range of weak hands and no bet 3 bet type hands.

If turn range includes any Ax, Jx, Tx, combo flush draws, bad straight draws, sets, 2,pair+, then its probably a raise on turn.

A lot depends on Hero's reads om villains post flop and how,loose a LAG PF is.
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03-02-2018 , 12:08 AM
NH. I definitely wouldn't raise the turn here.
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03-02-2018 , 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
I don't think most straightforward players would be betting the river with just a weak two pair. Although somewhat odd, I find it more likely they would donk a turn that didn't really help them with a pair + straight draw.

I think I have seen this play called the "old man's check-raise": check-call the flop, and donk the turn. When I see it, it is more often the guy just really liked his hand on the flop than that he really liked the turn card.

But really it seems like maybe this guy just isn't that straightforward and plays in an odd way that you would want to figure out if you played with him regularly. I would be curious to know results after the discussion is finished.
OK. Given his turn be what do you think his range is?
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03-07-2018 , 07:55 AM
Guessing you FPS raised the river and got called by worse. You must have felt proud and good, strong enough to beat the world. But don't kid yourself, it's spew.
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03-07-2018 , 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkypete
Guessing you FPS raised the river and got called by worse. You must have felt proud and good, strong enough to beat the world. But don't kid yourself, it's spew.
I called. He had A7. I was also very close to raising the turn.
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03-10-2018 , 07:06 AM
Seems like he can't beat any 3-betting hands once the river comes out. Only 99 and 88. Wouldn't feel bad about just calling river.
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03-11-2018 , 03:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samdash
Seems like he can't beat any 3-betting hands once the river comes out. Only 99 and 88. Wouldn't feel bad about just calling river.
I wouldn't expect hero to call the turn with 88 or 99. Villain really overplayed his hand IMO. I couldn't put him on A7 based on the description of him as straightforward post flop.
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03-11-2018 , 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
I wouldn't expect hero to call the turn with 88 or 99. Villain really overplayed his hand IMO. I couldn't put him on A7 based on the description of him as straightforward post flop.
He has Aces up on the turn
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03-11-2018 , 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
He has Aces up on the turn
And...?
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03-11-2018 , 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
And...?
You think he overplayed Aces up by betting the turn? Oh he played this handed poorly, but I wouldn’t call betting the turn an overplay
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03-11-2018 , 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
You think he overplayed Aces up by betting the turn? Oh he played this handed poorly, but I wouldn’t call betting the turn an overplay
I thought the combo of betting both the turn and the river was definitely too much. As samdash said, "Seems like he can't beat any 3-betting hands once the river comes out".
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03-11-2018 , 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
I thought the combo of betting both the turn and the river was definitely too much. As samdash said, "Seems like he can't beat any 3-betting hands once the river comes out".
Fair
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03-12-2018 , 02:27 AM
Seems like if he is the laggy type, villain would go for a k/r OTT with 98. Which is why the turn is a slam dunk raise/call. The river I also just call, even though we are giving up some value against worse two pairs it is a disaster if we get 3bet.
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