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Old 04-14-2018, 03:20 PM   #1
mongidig
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Tight range

I open UTG with JdTd 9 handed, The CO 3 bets, all fold and I call. His range is 99+ AQo+ AsQs+. He plays well post flop. He sees me as tight and decent.

Ad2d2c......Is this just a call given his tight range? Plus, I don't have a ton of value hands on this flop so I'd probably delay with AK+

Should I be bluffing anything on this flop? I think he may fold some pairs.

This is the bottom of my range so maybe I should CR with this and just call with hands like KJs.
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:51 PM   #2
maka2184
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Re: Tight range

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
I open UTG with JdTd 9 handed, The CO 3 bets, all fold and I call. His range is 99+ AQo+ AsQs+. He plays well post flop. He sees me as tight and decent.

Ad2d2c......Is this just a call given his tight range? Plus, I don't have a ton of value hands on this flop so I'd probably delay with AK+

Should I be bluffing anything on this flop? I think he may fold some pairs.

This is the bottom of my range so maybe I should CR with this and just call with hands like KJs.
I would c/r flop and bet down unimproved or wait to delay c/r semi bluff until turn.
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Old 04-15-2018, 03:19 AM   #3
jdr0317
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Re: Tight range

I'd just call here. Maybe we can take it away from 99-QQ by the river anyway. Kind of a problem that he has 30 potential fold combos pre and we block out 20% of those: that matters a lot here when AA/AK/AQ are 25 combos (and we block none of them).

KQdd is probably a good start for a range to xr bluff straight away.

I'd also consider bluff xr turned equity (K being pretty good because I can envision this player type b/f AQ on that card).
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:12 AM   #4
mongidig
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Re: Tight range

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Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
I'd just call here. Maybe we can take it away from 99-QQ by the river anyway. Kind of a problem that he has 30 potential fold combos pre and we block out 20% of those: that matters a lot here when AA/AK/AQ are 25 combos (and we block none of them).

KQdd is probably a good start for a range to xr bluff straight away.

I'd also consider bluff xr turned equity (K being pretty good because I can envision this player type b/f AQ on that card).
Good point regarding blockers.

JdTd would be a good bluff in your K turn scenario. We pick up more outs and could get him to fold even more better hands than ours.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:07 PM   #5
Smarty 2.0
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Re: Tight range

Fold preflop
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:01 AM   #6
maka2184
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Re: Tight range

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Originally Posted by Smarty 2.0 View Post
Fold preflop
+1

Over a sample pf 20/40 between myself and a crusher in 2 year span of once a week.

We both concluded JT suited was not profitable UTG unless certain table conditions make it that way.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:26 AM   #7
mongidig
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Re: Tight range

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Originally Posted by maka2184 View Post
+1

Over a sample pf 20/40 between myself and a crusher in 2 year span of once a week.

We both concluded JT suited was not profitable UTG unless certain table conditions make it that way.
Did you discuss how not playing JTs might affect the profitability of the hands you do play?

I see it the opposite way from you. I feel it is profitable unless certain table conditions make it not.
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:06 PM   #8
maka2184
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Re: Tight range

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Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
Did you discuss how not playing JTs might affect the profitability of the hands you do play?

I see it the opposite way from you. I feel it is profitable unless certain table conditions make it not.
UTG wasn't as important based on our sample size in lieu of MP and later positions.

We can agree to disagree.

We did discuss profitability of other hands but game I used to play in has 0 good players. All loose passive or LAG fish.

Some horrendous TAGs
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:30 PM   #9
mongidig
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Re: Tight range

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Originally Posted by maka2184 View Post
UTG wasn't as important based on our sample size in lieu of MP and later positions.

We can agree to disagree.

We did discuss profitability of other hands but game I used to play in has 0 good players. All loose passive or LAG fish.

Some horrendous TAGs
I would definately want to be playing JTs in your game as described.

There are plenty of people who say this is a fold. I just don't see "good" players folding this UTG...or QTs or KTs.

I could be wrong, they could be wrong.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:08 PM   #10
maka2184
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Re: Tight range

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Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
I would definately want to be playing JTs in your game as described.

There are plenty of people who say this is a fold. I just don't see "good" players folding this UTG...or QTs or KTs.

I could be wrong, they could be wrong.
It's more so the reverse implied odds of the villain(s) that would cold call preflop if I raised UTG.

For example, let's say I'm playing 25 VPIP 15 pfr or something 9 handed or they think I am (I play much looser I think but dont have HUD live).

The awful regs in game I play just stopped 3 betting me and would cold call only with ATs+ or KJs+ etc.

I would take advantage of that and raise JTs at times so Pot Call the Kettle Black but we found as default its safer to start tighter and then get looser once the fish cakes start to really burn money by folding rigorously
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:50 PM   #11
DougL
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Re: Tight range

It seems amazing to me that you'd have a big enough hand sample live to draw any meaningful conclusions about specific hands. fretelöo (old school HS HUHU guy) did this at micros 6m or FR for a lark, but he was playing months worth of live hand totals in a few days online.
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:23 PM   #12
maka2184
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Re: Tight range

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It seems amazing to me that you'd have a big enough hand sample live to draw any meaningful conclusions about specific hands. fretelöo (old school HS HUHU guy) did this at micros 6m or FR for a lark, but he was playing months worth of live hand totals in a few days online.

1000% agree but my friend had an excel plugin via IBM software that made it easier to calculate certain metrics via small sample size.

Can call BS on that and we can agree to disagree on that but please note he finished all college math in middle school, and utilized that IBM software and/or analytics using other software for his job at a very senior position at a firm in midwest that uses large data sets which at times required analysis via small sample size. Which in this case he applied to poker for some metrics.

With that said, not realistic to dispute with any pros like yourself or expert LAGTAG pros on practical actual facts of what you or they have experienced.

Just commenting based on my personal experience. My sample size live or online is definitely too small especially 9max or 6max online or HUHU.
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