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Old 08-27-2010, 02:57 PM   #1
jesse8888
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Stereotyping

Live full 20 hero's 4th hand or so. Fat dopey Asian guy opens UTG, hero 3 balls black jacks 2 seats later, next seat caps, 5 folds, we call 3 ways. Capper is dark skinned, either Indian or South American. Both villains late 30s, very much in the nutzo gambool stereotyped demographic.

K85hh

I immediately enter "calling all bets" mode. Is it too soon to do so? What if UTG c/r the capper? What if the flop checks through?
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:56 PM   #2
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Re: Stereotyping

Wow, I didn't know that there is a difference in stereotypes between fat and skinny Asian guys...
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Old 08-27-2010, 04:14 PM   #3
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Re: Stereotyping

Um, I have to imagine that there are situations where you could somehow find a fold with JJ at some point postflop.

Last edited by boc4life; 08-27-2010 at 04:15 PM. Reason: if UTG c/rs that could be a pretty good time to start thinking about folding
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Old 08-27-2010, 04:26 PM   #4
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Re: Stereotyping

How would you play the hand if you had absolutely no reads at all?

I'd check-call the flop, betting the turn if it checked through (calling the opener's turn bet if he leads).
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:05 PM   #5
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Re: Stereotyping

My default here is going to be to get to the turn cheaply, but I'm willing to pay 2-bets given the size of the pot and the slight stereotyping read.

Once there I do not want to pay 2 bets on a big street - i think you're losing a vast percentage of the time in this case and can't profitably call expecting to call at least one more on the river.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:37 PM   #6
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Re: Stereotyping

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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
How would you play the hand if you had absolutely no reads at all?

I'd check-call the flop, betting the turn if it checked through (calling the opener's turn bet if he leads).
I'd consider folding the flop for one bet but would likely call. I'd def fold if facing 2 on the flop.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:44 PM   #7
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Re: Stereotyping

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My default here is going to be to get to the turn cheaply, but I'm willing to pay 2-bets.
I don't. If one them is on a FD, then the flop will be jammed and one of our not-to-numerous outs is dead. There are 2 more overcards that could potentially beat us. The point is that even we are ahead and this not often vs. a raiser and capper, gambool or not, we are often overtaken anyway. Our hand can't stand much heat. I might find a fold at some point, although I will call 1 on the flop closing the action.
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:41 PM   #8
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Re: Stereotyping

If utg c/rs I think he is actually less likely to have a king.
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:47 PM   #9
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Re: Stereotyping

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If utg c/rs I think he is actually less likely to have a king.
Huh? I mean I can understand if you think he is even-money to have a King or an underpair, but less likely to have a King seems a bit too strong. Would you c/c a K in this spot?
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:54 PM   #10
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Re: Stereotyping

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Huh? I mean I can understand if you think he is even-money to have a King or an underpair, but less likely to have a King seems a bit too strong. Would you c/c a K in this spot?
Yeah.. I don't get it either.

Jesse, what if UTG just donks the flop? Looks like a clearer fold in that spot, even for only one bet.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:52 PM   #11
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Re: Stereotyping

Yeah I'm confident I can call closing the action....but a donk or a c/r I'm pretty sure folds me out.
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Old 08-28-2010, 12:15 AM   #12
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Re: Stereotyping

People just play a king so passively there against a capper that my thought if he cr would be that he is trying to represent a king to get qq to fold that id seriously consider check 3 betting.
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Old 08-28-2010, 01:02 PM   #13
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Re: Stereotyping

9.5 you owe us a weigh in.

I always struggle with spots where the raiser calls 2 more. He could have AA right? I mean, I dunno.....

So I called closing the action, turn is a small black card (2 or 3 no second FD) utg donks....
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Old 08-28-2010, 01:53 PM   #14
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Re: Stereotyping

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Originally Posted by jesse8888 View Post
9.5 you owe us a weigh in.

I always struggle with spots where the raiser calls 2 more. He could have AA right? I mean, I dunno.....

So I called closing the action, turn is a small black card (2 or 3 no second FD) utg donks....
Seems like you folded on the turn what turned out to be the best hand. Well, if you never fold a winner, you pay off too much.
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse8888 View Post
9.5 you owe us a weigh in.

I always struggle with spots where the raiser calls 2 more. He could have AA right? I mean, I dunno.....

So I called closing the action, turn is a small black card (2 or 3 no second FD) utg donks....
174.2
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Old 08-29-2010, 03:55 AM   #16
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Re: Stereotyping

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Originally Posted by pohuist View Post
Seems like you folded on the turn what turned out to be the best hand. Well, if you never fold a winner, you pay off too much.
you spend too much effort thinking about why you'd have posted the hand
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Old 08-29-2010, 11:26 AM   #17
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Re: Stereotyping

If you never pay off with a losing hand you fold too much. Wonder which leak I would rather have?
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:29 AM   #18
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Re: Stereotyping

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If you never pay off with a losing hand you fold too much. Wonder which leak I would rather have?
The VAST majority of people call too much and don't fold often enough.
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Old 08-30-2010, 12:56 PM   #19
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Re: Stereotyping

I would raise against any fat dopey guy here, even if he's not Asian. I would call any dark skinned guy, just to show him there is a genuine lack of respect for poker players, even in 2010.

I would fold to any Jewish guy wearing a Yarmulke, more so if he looks like a computer geek, he's wearing glasses, and has a pocket protector filled with ball point pens...
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:39 PM   #20
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Re: Stereotyping

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The VAST majority of people call too much and don't fold often enough.
What do you consider calling too much? If you can think of one give an example.
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:22 PM   #21
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Re: Stereotyping

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What do you consider calling too much? If you can think of one give an example.
Calling w/Ax-high on a river against a villain who rarely if ever bluffs.
Calling m/way with a medium-high PP on a dry A-high board when a couple of people like their hands.
Calling 3 bet after you c-bet 3-5-8r flop w/AKo 4-way and got C/R, C/3-bet.
Calling on any kind of draw with insufficient odds.

The list goes on and on.
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:02 PM   #22
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Re: Stereotyping

Those aren't things that the VAST MAJORITY of people do though, pohuist.

I'd say that the vast majority of players just play badly. Which means they call when they shouldn't. It also means they fold when they shouldn't.

Last edited by boc4life; 08-31-2010 at 06:03 PM. Reason: And the fun ones raise when they shouldn't
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:35 PM   #23
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Re: Stereotyping

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Originally Posted by pohuist View Post
Calling m/way with a medium-high PP on a dry A-high board when a couple of people like their hands.
Calling 3 bet after you c-bet 3-5-8r flop w/AKo 4-way and got C/R, C/3-bet.
Calling on any kind of draw with insufficient odds.

The list goes on and on.
I meant on the river. I was responding to your original comment about "paying off."
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:35 PM   #24
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Re: Stereotyping

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I meant on the river. I was responding to your original comment about "paying off."
I didn't mean just on the river -- calling the turn and then the river is also paying off. Talking about just the river, there are fewer correct folds -- often the size of the pot dicatates a call, unless you are fairly sure you are beaten. The examples of bad calls would be calling in m/way pots with bad cards, but talking about h/u -- call with bluffcatcher againt a person who does not bluff w/sufficient frequency to warrant this or calling w/A-high in a small pot against an EP raiser.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:38 PM   #25
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Re: Stereotyping

Pohuist you are forgetting that it is actually impossible to win when you fold. Think about that for a second.
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