Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Mid-High Stakes Limit Discussions of mid-high stakes limit Texas Hold'em

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2008, 12:42 AM   #1
jesse8888
Yes, you barred
 
jesse8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 16,624
Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

Live 20/40 game that is just to die for. Lots of limping preflop, lots of players calling post flop with basically air, not even a hint of aggression. Just fantastic.

UTG folds (he was on the phone), UTG+1 limps, and I limp with T 8

A nitty late position player calls, a not terrible player who thinks I'm a hyper-lag that bluffs at every possible opportunity calls in the cutoff, a presentably playing almost TAG in the small blind calls, and the just sorta bad but I can't put my finger on why BB calls.

6 players, 6 small bets

6 7 T

Checked to me and I bet. All 5 of them call.


6 players, 6 big bets

6 7 T 5

SB checks, BB donks, and UTG+1 folds. There are 2 players yet to act, plus the small blind behind me. I'm not sure what BB's donk means, and he's probably a "standard" 20/40 losing player. Misses value, calls when he should fold or raise, doesn't check/raise enough. The most likely thing for him to have is two pair, but it could a lot of other things as well.

Do I:

1. Raise. I have top pair, a four flush, and gut shot. I want to clean up some outs, have a monster draw, and also currently top pair.

2. Call. I'm probably still drawing.
jesse8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 01:35 AM   #2
Bremen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Bremen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Please Sir, I want some more fish.
Posts: 15,780
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

Well, you can clean up 6 outs. Assuming everyone folds and donker just calls you gain 1 BB worth of equity and you invest 2 to do it. Add in that not everyone will fold (a 4 probably is going to be stubborn) and you might get 3 bet, ick. I think calling looks super ideal. Plus the people behind you can talk themselves into calling with whatever hopeless crud they have. Of course if there is a decent chance you're ahead a raise becomes mandatory.
Bremen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 01:44 AM   #3
andyfox
2+2 urban legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: La-la land, where else?
Posts: 21,513
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

You don't have a gut shot, you're open-ended.

Still, I just call. This guy is betting into 5 opponents; the most likely explanation is that the 5 helped him, which means he has a better hand than you. You could make a staight or flush and still lose against this crew.
andyfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 01:47 AM   #4
Bremen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Bremen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Please Sir, I want some more fish.
Posts: 15,780
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

gah, he is openended, gah, me go bed now, gah, me idiot, gah, just call, ldo
Bremen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 01:55 AM   #5
jesse8888
Yes, you barred
 
jesse8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 16,624
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyfox View Post
You don't have a gut shot, you're open-ended.

Still, I just call. This guy is betting into 5 opponents; the most likely explanation is that the 5 helped him, which means he has a better hand than you. You could make a staight or flush and still lose against this crew.
yeah my bad. not sure why I typed it up that way...the cards and action are correct....I have a four flush, top pair, and an open ended one card straight draw.
jesse8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 04:53 AM   #6
gaming_mouse
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
gaming_mouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: taking notes on u (see profile)
Posts: 13,731
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

I dunno this looks like a baby 2 pair rather than a straight. i think a raise might be worth it to possibly clean up ur 8 outs and get rid of chopping hands. you dont get 3b often and you can still see a showdown off your turn raise a significant amount of the time. keep in mind you are getting a really nice discount on this move bc you have infinite outs.
gaming_mouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 04:53 PM   #7
donking
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: From California
Posts: 246
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

I like the raise.
donking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 05:46 PM   #8
Nchabazam
Pooh-Bah
 
Nchabazam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,687
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

You're probably drawing in this spot. I don't really mind some overlay from other callers, even if a raise might knock out a 9 or another 8 or a better T. I just think we'd get 3bet too often and end up charging ourselves because I don't think our hand is doing well against the donker.
Nchabazam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 07:01 PM   #9
Tryptamean
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,844
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

my first reaction was super ez call since we are likely decently behind BB's range if we don't improve... however, the possibility of cleaning outs and chasing out one card chopping hands is quite attractive here, plus it actually has a decent chance of working. lastly, the two behind you are in fact prime targets to fold better Tx.... also, you get 3-bet here rarely... even if he has 55 he prob just calls, and even total donks don't slowplay the nutz 6ways (but yes it is possible)...
Tryptamean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 08:08 PM   #10
FrankTheTank
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 266
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

I'd raise and check behind the river is I miss and it gets checked to me
FrankTheTank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 08:33 PM   #11
StrictlyStrategy
banned
 
StrictlyStrategy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jail till 10/28 for assault
Posts: 10,098
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

people fold an 8 here for 2 bets?

should I too?
StrictlyStrategy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 09:02 PM   #12
donking
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: From California
Posts: 246
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrictlyStrategy View Post
people fold an 8 here for 2 bets?

should I too?
Most don't seem to fold, though I think they should fold. Pot odds of 9:2. OESD is 8 outs, but the frush kills 2 outs, so only 6 outs.
donking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 09:47 PM   #13
Bremen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Bremen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Please Sir, I want some more fish.
Posts: 15,780
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrictlyStrategy View Post
people fold an 8 here for 2 bets?

should I too?
no and no

Quote:
Originally Posted by donking View Post
Most don't seem to fold, though I think they should fold. Pot odds of 9:2. OESD is 8 outs, but the frush kills 2 outs, so only 6 outs.
Its not automatic that someone has a flush draw. Also given the donker will almost certainly call the odds are more like 5:1 on a 7.5ish out draw. They also get better if someone else peels lightly. It is close, but I certainly think that calling is correct (unless donker is telegraphing 3-bet)
Bremen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 09:53 PM   #14
StrictlyStrategy
banned
 
StrictlyStrategy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jail till 10/28 for assault
Posts: 10,098
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

also impossible to win if you fold
StrictlyStrategy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 11:23 PM   #15
joeymsboy
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 685
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrictlyStrategy View Post
also impossible to win if you fold
Bingo
joeymsboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 11:43 PM   #16
jesse8888
Yes, you barred
 
jesse8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 16,624
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

So people seem to be saying raise it?
jesse8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 02:34 PM   #17
donking
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: From California
Posts: 246
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bremen View Post
no and no

Its not automatic that someone has a flush draw. Also given the donker will almost certainly call the odds are more like 5:1 on a 7.5ish out draw. They also get better if someone else peels lightly. It is close, but I certainly think that calling is correct (unless donker is telegraphing 3-bet)
if you are calling 2-bets cold on the turn, it is giving pot odds to the player behind you to call 2 more (11:2) and to the donker (13:1) to call 1 more. If you are sure this is going to happen, then you do have the odds to draw to 6 clean outs.
donking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 11:05 PM   #18
basecrdshp
adept
 
basecrdshp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 761
Re: Standard 6 handed pot on the turn

i assume you are behind to the BB and need to make your str ot flush to win.
Depending on your read of the two players left behind. Raise if they will call 2 bets and call if the won't (equity push). Fold to any action on the river if you miss your draws.
basecrdshp is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online