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09-15-2018 , 11:11 PM
#51
tipperdog
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adept
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munga30
Boys, boys. We are down in the weeds when lipper folds just about never and our pfr, hand and range, is fantastic. Proceed accordingly.
I think this is correct about limper, but PF I'm thinking mostly about BN, SB, & BB, which are difference between 4-way and 7-way.
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09-16-2018 , 01:56 AM
#52
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stinkypete
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munga30
Boys, boys. We are down in the weeds when lipper folds just about never and our pfr, hand and range, is fantastic. Proceed accordingly.
only an NL player would even consider that 3-betting here has something to do with trying to get the limper to fold. if his hand was so bad he's gonna consider folding it we obv don't want him to fold. which is fine cuz he ~never folds.
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09-16-2018 , 02:04 AM
#53
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Montrealcorp
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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipperdog
I think this is correct about limper, but PF I'm thinking mostly about BN, SB, & BB, which are difference between 4-way and 7-way.
me 2 obv.
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09-19-2018 , 03:33 PM
#54
dead.money
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journeyman
Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth
Hi bicyclekick:

I don't agree with this. Forgetting the specific hand, the argument to 3-bet so the big blind can't call for one more bet makes sense when the pot is short-handed and/or you don't have a hand that plays well multiway. But in this case, and now remembering the OP's hand is king-jack suited, which plays well multiway, I don't think you want to knock people out.

A more interesting question is suppose you knew the player on the button holding the chips would come for three bets as well as one of the blinds. Then would you want to just call (for two bets) or raise to make it three bets?

In my opinion, now you would want to make it three bets. You have a hand that plays well multiway, thus you should be fine in a large multiway pot. To see this, suppose you flop a flush draw. Given the size of the pot, are you happy or unhappy that's there should be several flop players for either one or two bets?

Another way to see this is to suppose that someone flops top pair, someone flops middle pair, someone flops bottom pair, and you flop the flush draw. Notice, that if the top pair bets, because of the size of the pot, both middle and bottom pair may be correct to call, but you (with the flush draw) while losing money to the top pair hand (on that round) are making money from the other two players.

Best wishes,
Mason
IZMET FEKALI..rammin and jammin lol...
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09-19-2018 , 03:42 PM
#55
dead.money
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journeyman
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[QUOTE=Mason Malmuth;54258022]Hi Crazy:


And this leads to the idea that is somewhat incorrect. You wrote: "I slightly prefer calling to 3 betting because I don't think we're doing that splendidly against the original raiser's range." And my response to this is that once you can see that there will be a large multiway pot, the range of the original raiser, while very important in short-handed pots, becomes less important here.


As you said ...in short handed pots its important, which I believe this will become if hero 3 bets here. IMO you're gonna lose the guy on button, both blinds and preflop limper. leaving you 3 handed and most likely dominated. However, a call brings in the button, maybe blinds, and definitely limper so ur at least 5 handed and maybe 7? Calling seems better.
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09-19-2018 , 10:45 PM
#56
leavesofliberty
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Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 6,296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba
Calculate your equity against the field. You can be a bit behind one and still be ahead of the field.
+1

Some toying during down time helps. The more early equities you know, the more you're going to find. I forgot the multiway equities so I might have missed this one live.
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