Conventional wisdom as far back as I can remember is that when we post somewhere outside of the blinds (either because we posted in the CO to get into the game, posted a kill and have to act in turn, etc.) is that we should raise ATC if it's folded to us. This is mainly because we're putting in one more small bet to possibly immediately win 2.5 small bets (a bit less in a kill scenario). As a secondary consideration, it prevents us from needing to construct some sort of check/re-raise range to protect our checking range.

Over the last few years, I feel like more and more players understand this dynamic and will 3-bet very light. There's a much greater chance in 2024 that we end up stuck in a 3- or 4-bet pot with a pretty trashy hand, and at minimum we win the blinds much less than we used to.

If we assume our opponents (a) know we are raising ATC; and (b) will adjust, if not perfectly, at least halfway decently, what do folks think about whether this continues to be a viable strategy?

I've basically taken it off the table by just always waiting for the BB if the player to my left is capable of adjusting. But, of course, in a kill game you can't avoid the dynamic.

1) there is a big difference between posting behind vs posting in the behind

2) it depends on your position, but please only post in the cutoff unless you are buying the button

3) it depends. Players these days have caught on to the you should raised any hand in the co. Pretty sure you should still raise a lot of hands if it is folded to you but be much more conservative if there are limps. Also depends on the players behind you

I think if you have some reads on the players behind you, you can make more exploitative adjustments. Like I assume for the most part this only comes up in the games you most commonly play, so based on how people defend their blinds or play the button you should of course adjust.

My default is to raise with ATC when I post in the cutoff and I’m first to act. If I check everyone knows I have a weak hand. I have a tight image so there might be a few believers and I can get away with more larceny than others.

Is it better to post from the cutoff or the small blind?

In some California casinos a new player can post from the small blind so there are three blinds, in effect a big blind, small blind, and a big blind. I see a lot of players do this. I don’t particularly care for this because some players won’t chop with three blinds while others will and it’s difficult to keep track of this and some players aren’t consistent with this.

It’s called posting between fyi. I think it’s alright.

Honestly between posting between, posting in the CO, and posting in the bb like normal, I just go with whatever will get me in the game fastest. I honestly don’t think the difference between the three should affect your winrate that much. If anything it might be better to just take the bb if you are uncomfortable posting behind.

Wouldn't it be weird if it was correct to check your full range when posting a blind behind the button? That certainly would be a departure from the conventional wisdom.

J Lot

Are you suggesting this is the answer? I guess I'd be surprised if a solver did this, but I don't have the horsepower to run this sort of solve myself. But this is precisely the sort of out of the box thinking I'm trying to elicit, although my intuition is that a solver would split its range here.

I appreciate people chiming in, but I'm not really trying to rehash the conversation about whether to post behind or not, or ask about what exploitative adjustments might be best, which is always an "it depends" answer. I'm questioning whether in theory raising 100% is correct.

I thought raising 100% was always an exploitative adjustment to the old school players who were way too tight/fit or fold postflop on the button and in the blinds.

I never raised "ATC" in those spots. You gotta think about the value of entering the game too. Live players are terrible, even the ones who are regulars and think they are good are terrible.

If you post in the CO and raise 100% of the time it’s folded to you, raising 100% of the time cannot be that wrong. Sometimes the button will 3b you light, but that’s often true in CO versus button spots and I don’t think it outweighs the tactical advantages of opening 100% (particularly if you are comfortable checking back some flops).

With a kill it’s a different story. You’ll often post it in earlier position and the increased stakes magnify the loss of EV you otherwise get from being in worse position. Obviously I’m raising my kill very wide if it’s folded to me in late position, but that’s not driven by some strategy of always raising my kill when it’s folded to me.

Also, posting in between is great and I would never post in the BB if I’m in a game where I can post in between.

I can't think of any advantages to having a checking range. If a solver doesn't open raise 100%, I suspect that comparing the total EV of always raising to the total EV of mixing would result in a minuscule difference. It is almost always better to simplify in these spots instead of wasting countless hours learning to split our range like a solver. As humans, we will usually have better results playing a simplified strategy extremely well instead of a mixed strategy less well.

Is the BB really going to defend 100% and 3bet the crap out of us with trash? I don't think many humans would do this. The main time checking might cross my mind is against a button maniac with good players in the blinds who aren't afraid of variance.