Quote:
Originally Posted by JLot
I still like to have some bluffs, though the frequency and nature of them are different in a 3 way spot like this turn. On the flop we can raise a number of draws which would make good candidates to continue betting on the turn. An example would be a hand like T8s. I would raise this pre in a large multi-way limp fest pot, raise the flop and bet the turn/river as a bluff unimproved.
If we're never bluffing in a spot like this I don't know why anyone would ever call both our turn and river bets. Sure, they may have outs on the turn but if the 2c comes off on the river they can just fold in complete confidence that they are beat. There are a lot of people who don't pay attention out there, but I think it's good to mix it up a bit, even in multi way pots. Also, if we have a good draw in a 3 or 4 way pot, we get more value from callers so our bluffs are less %bluff vs. %value - if that makes any sense. The more people in a pot the more draws go up in value vs. made hands.
I typed my response and then realized a lot of this stuff you know, so forgive me for pointing out the obvious. But here’s my take,
Since our opponents are often getting a good price to continue in LHE, bluffing frequencies are much lower than in NL. This natural element of LHE is exaggerated once the pot is multi-way, because the likelihood of a bluff succeeding is so low. For example, we can’t really ever be bluffing on the flop in a multi-way pot and expect to have immediate success. Our “bluffs” should be high equity draws, in which case, we’re mostly raising for value. In the OP we see the flop 8 ways for two bets. We literally have no shot of a bluff working on the flop.
In the example you give with T8s, I usually limp along with that one and raise T9s. But let’s say I raised T8s, I’m not going to be raising the flop with all four combos of T8s because with 3 combos we often only have 6 outs rather than 8 since the heart outs are dirty (occasionally, we’re drawing dead on this board). Of course I’ll raise with Th8h because we often have far more than our fair share of equity (and we can’t ever be drawing dead).
We don’t need to have bluffs in multi-way pots to insure that opponents will call our value bets. There will be enough draws and second best hands in their ranges for them to call. Also, 99.5% of our opponents aren’t paying enough attention to exploit that we aren’t bluffing. Besides, on the river, their pot odds are so great that they should call with any chance of winning so we should rarely be bluffing anyway.
Do we know each other?