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Playing low pairs OOP. Playing low pairs OOP.

01-17-2020 , 05:44 PM
20-40 game….
Should I not be calling a preflop open with 22, 33 or 44 in the BB against 2 opponents if I’m not willing to fight for the pot at some point?

In my last session, a few of my hands went like this…

MP raises, button calls, I call 22 in the BB. Flop comes 74T.
I either:
(a) check fold; or
(b) check call, and then check fold when, say, a Q comes on the turn

Folding preflop seems too weak… but all this check folding seems too hemmorrhagy… and check raising two opponents on flop or turn seems spewy.

If I think the preflop raiser's range is wide, I'll often reraise preflop and lead flop, especially if I can get it heads up. But in situations where I'm OOP with a low pair against c-betting opponents I just feel lost at sea.

Help?
Playing low pairs OOP. Quote
01-17-2020 , 07:22 PM
Folding preflop would be a giant disaster even if you play bad postflop
Playing low pairs OOP. Quote
01-17-2020 , 09:48 PM
From the bb is much different than cold calling from late position. You should almost always call preflop
Playing low pairs OOP. Quote
01-18-2020 , 01:14 AM
If you are facing one raise in the bb, you need to win ~5.5 BB to make it profitable. Well there are already 2.5 in the pot, so you just need to make 3 more to make it profitable, which will certainly happen even heads up.
Playing low pairs OOP. Quote
01-18-2020 , 01:34 AM
In order to win ~5.5 BB, I need to either (a) get to showdown where my low pair holds up; or (b) get my opponent(s) to fold before showdown.

I need to figure out ways to get out of the rut of check/folding when facing flop or turn bets from 1 or 2 opponents when I hold a crappy pocket pair!
Playing low pairs OOP. Quote
01-18-2020 , 01:45 AM
You don't need to win every pot.
Sometimes you call preflop and then totally miss. Don't worry, you'll also sometimes flop a set.
Playing low pairs OOP. Quote
01-18-2020 , 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandwich
In order to win ~5.5 BB, I need to either (a) get to showdown where my low pair holds up; or (b) get my opponent(s) to fold before showdown.

I need to figure out ways to get out of the rut of check/folding when facing flop or turn bets from 1 or 2 opponents when I hold a crappy pocket pair!
The point is, you don’t have to win that many pots to make calling profitable. This should be mitigated by the times you flop a set and win a big pot. Sometimes you'll flop a set and make a ton of bets off of someone with an overpair or top pair.

There are a few situations where being shodown bound with a small pair makes sense. Usually it’s on small paired boards with only one overcard.
Playing low pairs OOP. Quote
01-19-2020 , 09:13 AM
This is why people 3b weak suited connector is so profitable. You got guys rational folding small pp in BB.
Playing low pairs OOP. Quote
01-19-2020 , 10:25 AM
I don't think I've ever folded a pair to a single raise in the big blind.

postflop is dependent on the answer to this question: does my opponent realize that he needs to have a stronger hand to bet as the number of opponents increases? if yes(i assume yes at medium stakes until shown otherwise) I can safely fold pairs smaller than the bettors worst value hand. If no, then I ask myself how often will the players in between raise the flop? if rarely, i'll peel most flops with a pair multiway(particularly if i have backdoor straight/flush possibilities). if they raise often in between, I'll call less with pocket pairs, but I'll check raise more to get hu with the guy that doesn't tighten up as number of opponents increases.

then if i make it to the turn, i either have an obvious call(either heads up vs the flop bettor, or multiway with a turned draw) or an easy fold(multiway i'm praying for a check through with a pocket pair on the turn).

river plays differently as now if the multiway pot has become heads up, pocket pairs should usually be 0ev bluffcatchers vs a bet if both players play perfectly(implies that i think bluffing in hu pot with a pair of anything is bad on the river). It's kind of hard to misplay 0ev bluffcatchers on the river unless you call all of them or none of them over a large sample(opens exploits for your opponent) but if you call some of them? you'll be fine.

on rare occcasion I find myself value betting small pairs. it usually happens when many aggressive players play a pot very passively. this is the exception to all the above.
Playing low pairs OOP. Quote
01-20-2020 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob148
I don't think I've ever folded a pair to a single raise in the big blind.
I've done it where the raise came from a true nit and everyone else folded.

If you're up against QQ+ or even QQ+AKs, and you're out of position, 22 just isn't going to be a profitable hand even accounting for the discount IMO.
Playing low pairs OOP. Quote
01-20-2020 , 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandwich
20-40 game….
Should I not be calling a preflop open with 22, 33 or 44 in the BB against 2 opponents if I’m not willing to fight for the pot at some point?

In my last session, a few of my hands went like this…

MP raises, button calls, I call 22 in the BB. Flop comes 74T.
I either:
(a) check fold; or
(b) check call, and then check fold when, say, a Q comes on the turn

Folding preflop seems too weak… but all this check folding seems too hemmorrhagy… and check raising two opponents on flop or turn seems spewy.

If I think the preflop raiser's range is wide, I'll often reraise preflop and lead flop, especially if I can get it heads up. But in situations where I'm OOP with a low pair against c-betting opponents I just feel lost at sea.

Help?
Calling preflop is automatic, which takes us to the flop and turn.

Check calling flop would be dependent on the board texture and more importantly did another opponent also call the flop bet? If so, generally folding the flop against a bet and call would be standard. If your opponent bets and the other player folds, then calling the flop and turn and making a river decision would be the best course. Familiarity with your opponent is crucial for your river decision.

I think check calling a single opponent and then check folding the turn unless you have a bad board seems generally incorrect. You usually need to get to the river and make a player based decision, but frequently your going to need to call down here as well, especially against opponents capable of three barreling...
Playing low pairs OOP. Quote

      
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