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Perplexed shorthanded with no pair in position Perplexed shorthanded with no pair in position

04-15-2019 , 01:44 AM
b/3b or b/f
at the nut bottom of your range assuming no 85s
Perplexed shorthanded with no pair in position Quote
04-15-2019 , 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
I don’t encounter a lot of players in 20 games that I think play well. I’ve almost never encountered players that fold pairs on non flush rivers when the turn went check/check.
A no flush river? There was no flush draw and almost every straight draw except the one you have made a pair.

Almost never has to be an exaggeration.

In a typical 20/40 game I've played there're usually at least a couple of grinders and anyone competent would consider folding here with hands like 9x or QT, T8, etc unless you thought the other guy was a serial button clicker.
Perplexed shorthanded with no pair in position Quote
04-15-2019 , 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba
A no flush river? There was no flush draw and almost every straight draw except the one you have made a pair.

Almost never has to be an exaggeration.

In a typical 20/40 game I've played there're usually at least a couple of grinders and anyone competent would consider folding here with hands like 9x or QT, T8, etc unless you thought the other guy was a serial button clicker.
Why would they check those hands on the turn?
Perplexed shorthanded with no pair in position Quote
04-16-2019 , 09:29 AM
Quote:
Why would they check those hands on the turn?
We don't need to know why. The fact of the matter is that they checked SOMETHING on the turn. Now we must fill in the blanks with assumptions about (a) which hands should check the turn after check raising the flop, (b) which hands this player checks the turn with after check raising the flop, (c) which hands should continue to check on the river, and (d) which hands this player continues to check on the river.

In almost all cases except vs experts, there will be a disconnect between (a,b) and (c,d). Since all we have to go on is the read of "tricky/aggressive" we should assume that there is minimal disconnect(imo) and stick to default strategy.
Perplexed shorthanded with no pair in position Quote
04-16-2019 , 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
Why would they check those hands on the turn?
Because they had a perceived equity edge on the flop but not on the turn. That is true of many pairs on the flop. And that’s what he had.

You might not do it but you probably wouldn’t check anything you raised the flop with. People doing things you don’t do doesn’t mean you assign them a drooler profile that errs on the side of calling too much. I just don’t find it to be true at all. Ymmv obviously.
Perplexed shorthanded with no pair in position Quote
04-17-2019 , 01:39 AM
I think every postflop street is bad. Flop seems like a check and fold brick turns unimproved. As played I would bet this turn card. It’s very good for your range and you can barrel some rivers (like an ace!) and give up some. Plus you have a straight draw so you have some equity. And surely bet river either way.
Perplexed shorthanded with no pair in position Quote
04-17-2019 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey
I think every postflop street is bad. Flop seems like a check and fold brick turns unimproved. As played I would bet this turn card. It’s very good for your range and you can barrel some rivers (like an ace!) and give up some. Plus you have a straight draw so you have some equity. And surely bet river either way.
I'm not sure about the turn bet. A turn check by a "tricky/aggressive" player in my game is awful suspicious. If he was buffing I would think he would continue betting. This feels like a defensive check or a possible screw play. I think I am happy checking back in this smallish pot and either hitting my hand or having the opportunity to bluff some rivers.
Perplexed shorthanded with no pair in position Quote
04-18-2019 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
If he was buffing I would think he would continue betting.
There is a small group of weak draws in a good flop check raise range that should fold to a flop 3 bet, the bulk of which should be checked on turns that benefit the flop bettor(I think the J turn fits this criteria). If the big blind chooses to continue betting on the turn with every draw, he would be quite draw heavy and thus is vulnerable to frequent turn raises and light calldowns.

Quote:
Flop seems like a check and fold brick turns unimproved.
I would check this hand sometimes on the flop, in which case I would also fold the turn unimproved.

Quote:
As played I would bet this turn card.
Every Queen in our range has an open ender. I think that betting every Queen would be too many draws in the betting range, thus I would check some Queens in addition to all of the dumb end straight draws.
Perplexed shorthanded with no pair in position Quote
04-18-2019 , 09:23 AM
Playing 20/40 but donīt know how to play 86s here? Flop is fold or 3bet to his raise. Or check back and dont cbet, as range wise Flop hits BB range way better. And River is a must bet as we bet/call tons of Ax on the flop.

Maybe you should consider playing 2/4 again as you are burning your money/investor's money all day long on 20/40
Perplexed shorthanded with no pair in position Quote
04-19-2019 , 11:07 AM
No one likes comitting to bet turn and river? Maybe I am overly aggressive and optimistic in these spots. You put a lot of pressure on 9x and Tx which is looks like they have from turn play, as it seems unlikely they are checking Jacks or better or straights on the turn.
Perplexed shorthanded with no pair in position Quote

      
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