In live games we often see three people limping ahead of us, bless their hearts.

Do we overlimp A5o? J7s? T9o? K7o? 54s?

I'd be interested to read how low people go in this scenario.

I regularly see people limp a range like this:
77-22,ATs-A2s,K2s+,Q2s+,J3s+,T4s+,95s+,85s+,74s+,64s+,53s+,A Jo-A2o,K8o+,Q8o+,J7o+,T7o+,97o+,87o,76o

Against three limpers with that range, equities are:
A2s 27%
A5o, J8s 25%
Q5s 24%
T9o 23%
K7o 22%

Assume we are not in a blind, although the SB would be another interesting discussion.

raw hot/cold equity is not the most useful factor here imo

i think playability is more important

i'd much rather have 54s than k7o or a2o or whatever

depending on your position you may even choose to raise some things, in order to buy the button

and with a certain table dynamic this also often gets you a four card flop

If it’s a 9 handed game or 8 handed game, the minimum position is MP. The plan from MP vs button or CO is much different. From the button, we can play a lot more trash. In the MP, we have to be a lot more cautious about the people behind us, many of whom might play aggressive from 20/40+.

I’m assuming you are talking about a very loose/passive game. We can play almost any suited q, k, or a, and may even want to raise with most suited aces from late position. Any pair 99’s or lower can be raised or limped, and you should probably have a mix of both for deception. TT+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, 9Ts+, Aqo+ seems like a good raising range, with some other reasonable hands mixed in to balance if people are paying attention.

We should mostly avoid hands that don’t flop well multiway. There are tons of RIO from limp-happy players who might limp better hands than you ranged out, there are pre-flop traps, and there are people behind us who can wake up with a hand. That being said, suited and connected is worth playing in position, and we should also be aware of how players play after the flop.

You bless their hearts but then make the same mistake you're prescribing them as having made. I am all for splashing around in great position but it just seems like trying to reinvent a very solved wheel.

Limping and overlimping are different.

assuming you are in middle late to late position, raise suited stuff and fold offsuit junk.

your suited hands benefit greatly from realizing their equity which means that unless people are donking into the raiser or 3 betting preflop a lot you should be raising most if not all hands you want to play in order to see 4 card flops and to build the pot so that you get paid when you hit your longshots.

you will also look reckless and stupid to some players which means they will play worse against you.

How aggressive are these players post flop? Are you going to see 4 to 6 people calling to the river often?

There was a time especially at the Taj when with so much limping the theory was you could raise the button with 22+, and take the free card when you don't flop a set. If 8 players are seeing the flop, your already getting close to your immediate odds.

Post flop playability is everything. 45s, A5s, K2s, 89o. When raising is rare and almost every pot is 5+ to the flop, these become more valuable. K9o, A6o become far less valuable, especially for a raise.

I find this one very situational, cause there aren't really standard open limping ranges to work with. Every limper is a horse of a different color, and they limp for different, usually illogical reasons. If they actually have a limping range based on hand values, well what makes a hand a limping hand anyway? The the only thing we can presume is limpers want multiway pots and thus likely have volume hands, and in that case we can overlimp pretty wide. We'll have volume hands too, as well as position and superior poker skillz (safe assumption given that we're not the ones open limping).

If I'm acting right after them in EP, then forget it. Just open raise as you would without the limper, just silently thank him for the protection, easier decisions, and potential dead money. Or be a real prick and thank them out loud.

+1

I'd raise 54s

May call J7s or raise.

RIO is so bad rest of hands but think it's mathematically wrong to not limp.

Want to clean outs so raising A5o, K7o, T9o too.

Probably should only limp T9o and J7s.

PS: Ninefingershuffle, don't take all my money in 2 weeks

Raising with A5o, K7o and 9To is horrible.

+1

Been in weird games, 20/40 horseshoe, Potto 30/60 half kill, Bellagio 60/120, Commerce 60/120 where probably correct based on lineup but I never did and probably never will.

Then again, there are certain experts like SeanSnyder, Dr.Elo, Unguarded who can probably build images making it profitable.

Tldn probably but SeanSnyder, Dr.Elo, Unguarded all play so well postflop so likely exception(s).

Sure, but one is a major mistake and one is a minor one. The equity ranges you're listing are nice, but we're not closing the action and the blinds get dealt two cards. I avoided replying for a while but I'm not really sure there is a proper way to add hands here that we wouldn't already be playing for a raise.

What? So limping deuces on the button after three limps is a bad play? Or you think it’s better to raise? Because our hand actually benefits from getting in cheaply.

Pairs are not included in the original post.

What I'm saying is that expanding your range into hands you'd normally fold is very likely a mistake. You're doing the same thing they are, but with a slightly better understanding of it. It's assumption bingo. The button wasn't specified in the OP either. Place yourself in the seat behind your seat and see if you're not happy to see a good player entering the pot with worse holdings than they normally would. "The first three are fools, but this man in the cutoff is realizing equity".

Playing more hands in position is good, but there is a limit. This post asks what people think that limit might be. I don't think you will realize the conceptual profit playing the offsuit listings in the OP, and the suited cards likely play better with a raise (and it probably should be randomized when you play them). I think it's wild for me to effectively be saying "ignore the numbers", but there are a lot of assumptions built into our over-limp, the main ones being that the limpers are playing their handstrength face up and that the blinds are not going to be dealt premium hands in these instances. Position does improve your chances in all situations but there are now a ton of variables so it's tough to quantify where the line should be drawn.

It's a good question, and in a live game it's going to be difficult to glean whether our expansion is effective. I'm not trying to be argumentative, this is the best question that's been asked on this forum in a while, and I'm happy to be shown that I'm wrong.

Oh ok, I think I misunderstood your post. My mistake. I also think the hands OP wanted to limp in are not a good selection. You make some great points.

I like this answer a lot. Yes raise to 3BB +1BB for every extra limper or 4BB OOP. This is because if any good players are left to act, if you don't raise it, they will, so no point just limping behind here. Agreed on just folding the total trash.

It's LHE.