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08-09-2022 , 01:49 AM

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

8 handed, 20-40

Decent tight player raises UTG, I three bet red QQ in HJ, wide decent lag calls on button, wide decent lag calls in SB, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop - 4 players (13 sb)

JsTs3c

I bet, button raises, sb three bets, UTG folds (AJ face up by accident, no spade), I call, button calls

Turn - 3 players (11 BB)

JsTs3c2h

SB checks, I bet, both call

River - 3 players (14 BB)

JsTs3c2hKs

Quote

08-09-2022 , 02:36 AM

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,908

(Maybe second) Worst card in the deck?

What does SB do?

Quote

08-09-2022 , 03:31 AM

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,879

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

Seems like a fold if sb bets. If button bets and sb folds I probably talk myself into calling.

Quote

08-09-2022 , 07:36 AM

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

I'd 4 bet flop.

As played I'd check call river for 1 bet.

OT: How much did you win this session & how many beers

Quote

08-09-2022 , 08:46 AM

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

Sorry, that’s the decision point, sb bets the river and I’m getting 15 to 1 with a player behind.

Think calling the three bet on flop is clear right play here. Turn card changes so much here so I prefer to delay potential raise to turn when card is so dynamic

Quote

08-09-2022 , 09:58 AM

Munga30

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 2,699

Close but probably a fold. We have enough equity to call if button never raises, probably. But not enough overlay for when he does. Could depend on what sb bluffs.

Quote

08-09-2022 , 02:26 PM

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,357

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

Sorry, that’s the decision point, sb bets the river and I’m getting 15 to 1 with a player behind.

Think calling the three bet on flop is clear right play here.

About if u hold AA ?
I think the river is a fold if u can have AA here but a call if u don’t .

Regardless imho just randomize it 50/50 with QQ in that river when it’s so close ?

Quote

08-09-2022 , 02:46 PM

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

Why wouldn't I have AA here? More likely to cap flop? Yeah, I probably wait in this exact spot here with AA-QQ and cap my sets and AK/AQss/89ss type stuff.

I'd certainly call river with AA because KQ is part of their range here.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a pretty easy fold with QQ no spade here. The SB's line of 3 bet/check/bet just screams draw that got there, and I have to contend with the player behind as well.

I remember the old fur coats post from years ago and generally abide by its maxims, but even in fairly large pots, I find that river bluffs are becoming rarer and rarer.

Quote

08-09-2022 , 02:53 PM

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,357

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

Why wouldn't I have AA here? More likely to cap flop? Yeah, I probably wait in this exact spot here with AA-QQ and cap my sets and AK/AQss/89ss type stuff.

I'd certainly call river with AA because KQ is part of their range here.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a pretty easy fold with QQ no spade here. The SB's line of 3 bet/check/bet just screams draw that got there, and I have to contend with the player behind as well.

I remember the old fur coats post from years ago and generally abide by its maxims, but even in fairly large pots, I find that river bluffs are becoming rarer and rarer.

+1
Obv that 3rd player behind changes thing massively .
Im never folding here if HU at the end .

Quote

08-09-2022 , 08:17 PM

#10

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

+1

You make excellent reads & takes optimal lines.

OT: Doesn't apply to Mon game you play unless LAG SB & LAG BTN had narrow range which can be. However, I'd classify both LAG SB & LAG BTN as solid creative LAG. Similar to one's in Commerce, Canterbury, etc with wide range Flop, Turn, River

Last edited by maka2184; 08-09-2022 at 08:23 PM.

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08-09-2022 , 09:30 PM

#11

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,879

Can confirm there are absolutely zero solid, creative lags playing 20/40 at commerce.

Quote

08-10-2022 , 11:33 AM

#12

hardinthepaint

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 596

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

Can confirm there are absolutely zero solid, creative lags playing 20/40 at commerce.

lol. I generally just skip past maka's posts anyway.

Quote

08-10-2022 , 09:37 PM

#13

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

Can confirm there are absolutely zero solid, creative lags playing 20/40 at commerce.

+1

I've rarely played 20/40 @ Commerce.

OT: 40/80+, there are times where LAGTAG pros play until seat opens (ex: bakku, chrisdaddycool, privatejoker, etc).

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08-11-2022 , 02:25 AM

#14

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,908

Quote:

Originally Posted by maka2184

OT: 40/80+, there are times where LAGTAG pros play until seat opens (ex: bakku, chrisdaddycool, privatejoker, etc).

I used to love reading those guys' posts, learned a lot.

Quote

08-11-2022 , 05:45 PM

#15

CactusCub

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 64

>> Decent tight player raises UTG, I three bet red QQ in HJ, wide decent lag calls on button, wide decent lag calls in SB,

Table change?

Quote

08-11-2022 , 05:53 PM

#16

CactusCub

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munga30

Close but probably a fold. We have enough equity to call if button never raises, probably. But not enough overlay for when he does. Could depend on what sb bluffs.

Why does the possible raise change our decision? It's not like we'd consider calling

Quote

08-11-2022 , 07:36 PM

#17

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,908

Quote:

Originally Posted by CactusCub

>> Decent tight player raises UTG, I three bet red QQ in HJ, wide decent lag calls on button, wide decent lag calls in SB,

Table change?

No 20/40 games I know of where you can generally get a table change. Only one game going, or must-move system.

Quote

08-11-2022 , 08:24 PM

#18

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,879

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

No 20/40 games I know of where you can generally get a table change. Only one game going, or must-move system.

Commerce now does one feeder game with the rest being equal status main games. Bike is all main games now. The players got together to convince them to do it and it has been overwhelmingly popular.

Quote

08-11-2022 , 08:40 PM

#19

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,357

Quote:

Originally Posted by CactusCub

>> Decent tight player raises UTG, I three bet red QQ in HJ, wide decent lag calls on button, wide decent lag calls in SB,

Table change?

Why would you ?

Quote

08-11-2022 , 11:54 PM

#20

Darth Sagebrush

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 198

UTG's play is bizarre.

What are your standards for "decent" that the monkeys in this hand make the cut?

Quote

08-12-2022 , 02:03 AM

#21

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,879

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Sagebrush

UTG's play is bizarre.

What are your standards for "decent" that the monkeys in this hand make the cut?

Utg’s mistake was showing the fold. If you make that fold you make sure absolutely nobody can see your cards. Maybe rip them up and eat them.

Quote

08-12-2022 , 02:51 AM

#22

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,908

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

Commerce now does one feeder game with the rest being equal status main games. Bike is all main games now. The players got together to convince them to do it and it has been overwhelmingly popular.

Interesting, I haven't played in those places in a few years. I'm surprised the regs or the house wanted that change.

Quote

08-12-2022 , 03:40 AM

#23

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

I don’t mind utg’s play here. He’s facing three cold on the flop and was three bet pre. AJ is no good and has poor equity. He didn’t show on purpose, it flipped up

The other two can play well if they want to but like to make gsmbooolll and play too many hands pre.

Quote

08-12-2022 , 04:16 AM

#24

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,879

I don’t mind it either, but it’s something I feel like fishy players would never think to do, so showing it to the whole table kind of sucks. It also invites people to raise flops lighter knowing someone is capable of a big fold like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

Interesting, I haven't played in those places in a few years. I'm surprised the regs or the house wanted that change.

After the pandemic, they switched to no must move. Then as the pandemic waned they tried switching back and it was a complete disaster. The main game was always worse than the must move games, and it made the regs angry and want to sit out. Having more main games just works out for everyone, and people understand that now so are fine with dealing with their game possibly breaking.

Quote

08-12-2022 , 05:01 AM

#25

CactusCub

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

Why would you ?

I'm counting four decent players at this table so far

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