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Old 08-16-2018, 10:40 AM   #26
Bob148
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Re: Low Pocket Pair OOP

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Originally Posted by Bob148 View Post
I think that’s a good way to sum up river play, but that flop and turn play are a bit different:

Protection with pairs, adding to the profitability of my value range by betting dominating draws, and reducing the profitability of my opponents range are all good reasons to bet or raise the flop or turn.
I was at a friends house killing time while he had a phone call, which is why this was such a short post. I think these reasons need some explanation:

Protection with pairs: I only use this reason to bet in conjunction with other reasons to bet; only vs the most face up opponents does protection serve as a reason to bet without additional ev sources. 33 certainly gains when opponents fold overcards, but I don't think it's enough reason to put in action as posed by the op.

Adding to the profitability of my value range by betting dominating draws: this is mostly a shorthanded postflop concept; this ev source does not apply to the situation as posed by the op.

Reducing the profitability of the opponent's range: Think about the profitability of your opponent's draws and bluffcatchers; these hands realize the most equity when streets check through; draws can love to hit for free and bluffcatchers love to get to showdown for as few bets as possible. These hands may earn profits when calling bets, but this profitability is drastically reduced when calling bets to the effect that many draws and bluffcatchers must fold the flop or turn; for example 33 on this flop imo. So "getting value from worse" is a shortcut explanation of value betting, while "reducing the profitability of the opponent's range" is a more apt description of what happens when we bet a hand like top pair for example. Ask yourself "is my opponent profiting by calling my bet?; do I actually want my opponent to call?" In the vast majority of cases, picking up the pot on the flop or turn is more profitable than getting action. Only the strongest hands in my range earn > pot.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:13 PM   #27
bicyclekick
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Re: Low Pocket Pair OOP

Check raising this flop is awful awful awful. Check calling this flop is bad. Guy bet into 3 people and it’s qtx and you have 33. Foooooooooooold. Too optimistic with a hand that only has two outs to improve. It’s much dif than having the bottom pair and likely 5 outs when losing. I only read a few posts but was shocked there was some chatter about calling being alright
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:48 PM   #28
leavesofliberty
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Re: Low Pocket Pair OOP

It's only a pair of threes. You should feel good about being bluffed off of only a pair of threes.

A QT flop hits many, many hands, and you have to be way behind the range of hands that the field has.

33 will not realize its equity most of the time, and it's better not to try to force it to go to a showdown.
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