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11-20-2017 , 12:18 PM

QUADT2

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 20

H part of 100/200 7-game mix

tight good pro raises UTG, i call bb with 6

flop: T

he bets i call

Turn: T

he bets, i raise he calls

River: T

some meaningless blank
he checks, i bet

Thoughts on all streets appreciated. thx

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11-20-2017 , 12:26 PM

blundy

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 49

How is he out of position if he raised utg and you called BB?

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11-20-2017 , 12:27 PM

dadjoey

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 332

Quote:

Originally Posted by QUADT2

H part of 100/200 7-game mix

tight good pro raises UTG, i call bb with 6

:

flop: T

:
he bets i call

Turn: T

:
he bets, i raise he calls

River: T

:some meaningless blank
he checks, i bet

Thoughts on all streets appreciated. thx

Fold pre. Defending any two suited cards has to be a small to medium losing play and not worth the variance IMO. Also more so against a solid pro raising UTG.

Any other reads on you or pro? I expect pro to call down with almost all pairs to look you up and most ace highs.

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11-20-2017 , 01:35 PM

OnTheRail15

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,339

Xc turn. I like your play if the turn doesn’t pair you.

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11-20-2017 , 02:06 PM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Fold pre, call down turn. Bluffing this hand is dumb and you're more likely to get called by worse than fold better IMO.

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11-20-2017 , 02:07 PM

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

Fold pre. Not close.

How can villain check river OOP. River card does matter.

Value betting pair of twos vs a good UTG range is bad.

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11-20-2017 , 02:09 PM

OnTheRail15

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,339

Of note, game is 7 handed.

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11-20-2017 , 02:17 PM

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,051

Quote:

Originally Posted by blundy

How is he out of position if he raised utg and you called BB?

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11-20-2017 , 02:24 PM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheRail15

Of note, game is 7 handed.

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Yes, but 62s isn't in my BB defend range in 6 max. So logically it's not going to be present here.

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11-20-2017 , 02:35 PM

#10

QUADT2

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 20

whats the bottom end of ur BB defend range in 6 max?

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11-20-2017 , 02:35 PM

#11

OnTheRail15

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,339

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

Yes, but 62s isn't in my BB defend range in 6 max. So logically it's not going to be present here.

Fine but pre isn’t really that bad. Turn is much worse imo

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11-20-2017 , 02:36 PM

#12

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheRail15

Fine but pre isn’t really that bad. Turn is much worse imo

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Agreed.

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11-20-2017 , 02:39 PM

#13

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by QUADT2

whats the bottom end of ur BB defend range in 6 max?

65s for my suited 6's. Maybe add 64s against certain UTG opens. 54s as well. 62s just doesn't flop smoothly enough for me to consider playing it here.

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11-20-2017 , 04:42 PM

#14

UpHillBothWays

adept

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 978

i used to play this pf if the utg raiser 7handed was loose enough but even so, it's just not a good enough hand to play hu oop even vs a slightly looser opponent. so def fold pre.

you had the plan to k/c then k/r before the turn came, right? if so, then you have to change your plan when you hit a pair. it's now better to check and call vs. trying to move him off of a hand. you'd only be folding out worse hands (high cards who tried to win w/ a 2nd bet and don't think they can call for their pair outs). those same hands may check behind if you k/c the turn, though some % of the time they'll bet and then it comes down to knowing what this person's tendencies are

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11-20-2017 , 07:08 PM

#15

JLot

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 260

I'm surprised no one has touched on a possible check raise line on this flop. This flop is good for the BB's range and we can certainly call a three bet. We'd also be check raising T's and 8's here to balance this semi bluff. I like a flop check / call more with our higher flush draws that have show down value. Are we worried we have too many c/r semi bluffs vs. c/r value on this type of flop or is it a scenario where folks prefer to flat their whole range?

I'm in the fold pre camp unless scotch has been flowing profusely, and also like a check call on the turn as played. We have some modicum of show down value with our pair.

J Lot

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11-21-2017 , 11:38 PM

#16

PaulValente

grinder

Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 645

I'm alright with a x/c or x/f strategy on this flop v UTG raise. I'm also ok with a strategy that includes x/r'ing in which case I would certainly include this hand.

And what everyone else said. Fold pre. Treat it as a bluff catcher once you make the pair on the turn.

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11-22-2017 , 08:32 AM

#17

Victor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 72,207

tight utg 7 handed has like no bluffs in his range on the river. c/c , c/c, c/f. or bet the river and hope to get called by ace high but you should proly run the numbers on if that makes sense first.

check calling river seems like a big mistake, but again, just run the numbers. shouldnt be hard as utg range is pretty tight here.

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11-22-2017 , 04:25 PM

#18

DeathDonkey

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 12,875

Victor: villain should have some big flush draw combos and some QJ combos at the least. I like check call 3 times just fine. Pre I defend any two suited here and flop is fairly interesting. I’m certain the bots would have a mixed strategy with flush draw combos but I think 6 high would generally just jam flop and barrel off.

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11-22-2017 , 08:14 PM

#19

samdash

adept

Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,196

Getting a river donk bet called by A-high seems very possible on this board depending on what the river card is.

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11-22-2017 , 08:17 PM

#20

OnTheRail15

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,339

My experience is that the river xc xc donk is a bluff practically never from tags or lag/tags so it doesn’t make much sense to employ the line except in special circumstances or to exploit specific villains.

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11-22-2017 , 11:10 PM

#21

DonkeyOnTilt

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,002

Turn check raise is bad. I hate turning made hands into bluffs.

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11-28-2017 , 08:52 AM

#22

gobbo

Trust the fat man.

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 15,623

This post raises so many questions.

Edit: But mostly how do I join this game.

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11-29-2017 , 05:56 AM

#23

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathDonkey

Victor: villain should have some big flush draw combos and some QJ combos at the least. I like check call 3 times just fine. Pre I defend any two suited here and flop is fairly interesting. I’m certain the bots would have a mixed strategy with flush draw combos but I think 6 high would generally just jam flop and barrel off.

That is defending a lot of hands. Tight BTN-4 range is about 10-15%. Defending all suited hands, pairs, A2+, T+9+ is 50%. That's a big spread to overcome.

My experience is that a bot would play 62s and weakest flush draws very passively here. xc, xc, xf. At its most aggressive, xc xc donk river, since we don't block many draws.

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11-29-2017 , 10:44 AM

#24

DeathDonkey

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 12,875

The difference in amount of hands played is not relevant, look into the equities. In Omaha a guy might open 10% and it’s correct to defend Like 80% heads up. Depends on equities and pot odds.

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11-29-2017 , 09:23 PM

#25

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

FWIW DD is for sure going to play 62s more profitably than the average guy is. 62s may be a loser, but the people who frequently play it from the BB are demographically more likely to make horrific post flop mistakes with it as well (IOW, the break evenish nits wouldn't be caught dead with 62s defended against an utg open but the stationy and spewy fish will gladly play this hand).

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