My reaction to losing $3m at 40-80 is "totally reasonable" actually.

Take some guy who, like, manages a hedge fund or is an entertainment big wig in Hollywood, pulling in some absurd number a year like $5m. Because he owns his businesses, he can leave and do other things outside of operational stuff, so now suddenly he can spend 800 hours a year at the casino.

He really enjoys that limit hold em because the action is fast, the pots are often fairly big and the game is more relaxed than the constant tanking and stare downs at no limit. Of course, he's pretty awful and loses at 3 BB / hour (or about as bad as someone can play without actively trying to give it away IMO). So round up a bit, and we're at $200k a year.

But he's been playing since around 2000, and almost exclusively in the 40/80. 17 years, and take away some time away from playing to do other things, and you can arrive at $3m easily.

Where I play (Commerce) the floor men haven't got a clue when to start a game and when not to. All too often they start a game and it gets short very quickly, either because they've started another, higher stakes game to which several players migrate, or because they started, for example, a hold 'em game with a bunch of stud players killing time who then leave when a stud game either starts or an existing stud game has seats open up.

My experience is that the live ones will not sit down in a short game, especially if they perceive it to be populated with sharks. The vast majority of players at Commerce, especially the "live" ones, won't play short-handed; as soon as a seat opens up they're screaming at the floor to fill it. if the game gets to be six-handed, they sit out or take a walk. Not having a must-move would be a disaster at Commerce.

it sure brings about a bunch of predatory feeling table changing and fish chasing

If it makes you feel any better, far more people get far more crushed for far larger amounts in other games in life (business, markets, etc).

In fact, most people who you crush at the poker table are out crushing other people at other things -- selling a house / business to some sucker willing to pay 33% more than it's worth, or charging decamillionaires $250k+/year to put their money in SPY for them

That’s correct.

Best wishes,
Mason

There’s always exceptions, but I don’t see this happening. But what I have seen is someone who keeps themselves broke by blowing all the money they earn. There was recently an example of this in Las Vegas. This player recently passed away, but was a competent attorney who worked well into her eighties to keep playing poker.

I won’t mention his name, but there was another very famous player who was a regular in the limit games at The Horseshoe who lost virtually everyday he played, and he did play everyday the last few years of his life and had to be close to brokenat the end.

Best wishes,
Mason

I must be missing something because this seems to me to be exactly backwards.

Mason

To my shock and dismay I can confirm this is the truth at the commerce. Very odd.

While they may not start a game short handed here in minnesota 20/40 always, it's pleasantly surprising the percentage of the player pool who don't get worked up about a must move getting down to 4 handed. They just keep posting their blinds and it's no big deal.

The mix 50/100 mix game can be slightly more fickle when it comes to short handed. A lot of the stronger losing players don't like being 'the spot' and will want 5 or 6 handed to start or continue a game unless there is a whale in the mix.

This seems right to me.

First of all, on DD's last point, the regular losing players in California games never play 8 hour sessions except maybe once in awhile when they are stuck. Most of their sessions are either hit and runs or they stop loss themselves. So there's no way they get up to 1500 hours a year. Not even close.

Also, bear in mind almost no player "rarely wins" in a limit game. A 2BB/hour loser, if she exists, is still probably going to win 30 to 40 percent of her sessions or something. Everyone catches cards and runs good for awhile, and even if you don't get maximum value, if you get dealt 4 sets and 2 straights in 3 hours, you are going to win some money, even against players who are much better than you are.

Sexist ban

i was shocked to see the regs not want to play shorthanded at commerce 40 when i played last month. really turned me off to the idea of playing there again in a straight holdem game. the behavior was predatory and very reminiscent of online games. fish sits out, the nit regs sit out. 6 handed, it don't matter. take a walk. bizarre.

Bellagio regs do that with 8 players.

Maybe it's different in Vegas. But I am certain that if there were not must-moves at Commerce the games would disappear because so many players dislike shorthanded play. If they felt they couldn't be guaranteed a full table because of the back-up must-move game, they would play elsewhere.