I play in a semi-private game where everything is coordinated via text. I used to get texts from the casino employee who coordinates it along with two of the players in the game. Now everybody has stopped notifying me and I only get to play if I happen to be at the casino. They always claim they forgot. But it's obviously intentional. I've heard rumors to that effect (that they don't want me and one other good player in the game).

There are a couple of tagfish who do really good in the game. I think they are protecting their territory. And the rec players are their real life friends, so it's easy for them to convince them to vote me off the island.

A problem is also probably that I bumhunt the game. When told about a game, I ask who is playing. If the lineup is not good, I don't play. If it starts good but turns bad, I get up. Often to play much smaller stakes, that they see me playing.

A secondary problem is that these guys are friends who have known each other for years, and I'm a random new person. Who takes their money. And has a reputation for being quiet and serious at the table.

Stop bumhunting and be friendly is obviously a solution. But neither are very workable for me. I don't want to play in games I'm not a favorite in (should I, to get invited to the good games?) -- and it's really hard to just instantly change my personality to one that is constantly cracking jokes and being loud, like they are.

So...how can I make myself welcome?

stop going to these games or feeling like you are entitled to be invited. you've listed several main things you could do to improve the situation, and then explained how you're not going to do them. better to do a different thing going forward and not cause yourself or these other guys any more stress imo.

Is that what regs on online poker sites should do? Stop playing so the rec players can play each other? I mean, they are causing themselves and the rec players stress, right?

This is my job. I'm not going to stop playing. I am however willing to modify my behavior in reasonable ways. Which is why I asked for advice here.

'play in tons of -EV spots and get a whole new personality' isn't really all that reasonable, imo.

first, you're operating under the assumption that if a) you make some reasonable changes to your play/behavior, then b) you'll be invited back.

that's almost surely not the case. first impressions are very hard to overcome/redo.

second, if you're not willing to play in a few (you said tons, that's glib) -EV or EV neutral spots, stop gambling. you need to do this for sure.

third, there's a difference between being the life at the party and not being talkative at all. if you're unwilling to change your personality even a bit, then as BBB said, don't bother and keep playing only when you're "at the casino" (seems weird that a casino game doesn't have a set start time).

fourth, bumhunting live is insanely terrible for games. live games are like an ecosystem. if people PERSONALLY FEEL they are being taken advantage of, they won't want you in their game. period. stop bumhunting and play w/ a tougher lineup or gtfo. it sounds like you're under-rolled for this game. i may be wrong but there's really no other reason to not play in a live casino-located game that "isn't great" if you're a solid player. you need to keep the game going/alive and it's everybody's "job" to do so. you're not doing your part, so why should they go out of their way to invite you?

i can't imagine how these guys must feel seeing you win, pickup, and not even rathole, but go play a smaller game lol. basically you're a dick in this sense (really every sense of how you approach this game, like it's your royal right to have your pick/choosing of who and how to play in a live game that isn't yours).

so in sum, there's likely nothing you can do at this point to get those texts again. even if you do change your behavior. they've made up their mind about you so it's extremely unlikely that'll change. if you want to give it a shot, you know what you have to do and the advice you need is "now go ahead and do it." if you do have a shot to get texts again, it'll take at least a few times of not seeing you lock up wins/go play smaller games (i bet you've never or rarely done that with a loss), choosing to play when the game isn't good, and not saying a word.

and honestly, your not talking is like 1% of the issue yet you've labeled it as some huge % of the thing you can't change. your poker ettiquette/behavior is the issue, not the fact you're introverted at the table.

and again, you can't compare this to online. it's live. get over it.

EDIT: ACTUALLY, the live/online thing CAN be brought to an analogous situation. stars button rules at high limits. people MASTERED getting the button every time and it RUINED the stars high stakes games completely. you're doing the same thing.

bum hunting online does not equal bum hunting online. The lineups that you pass on when its not good would probably have a 40 person wait list if it was on pokerstars. just show up at the casino all the time and be there when game starts. pretty simple

Thanks!

I think that's a correct assumption. They go hot and cold with me. If I modified my behavior, I believe I'd eventually be a part of the accepted regular group. Over time. And that is my goal.

Ya, that was an exaggeration. In reality it's more like I'm looking for only the best spots and avoiding neutral or slightly +EV spots. There aren't many lineups where I'm a dog by much.

Ok so modification 1 I can live with is to stop being such a ****ing nit about games I play in. I might not play in them all, but I will stop asking who is playing and just come and play whenever I'm invited. That's worth a shot at least.

This I have no idea how to modify. Am I supposed to ask them about sports or something? I guess I can try to join in their conversations but they are usually talking about their real life stuff, of which I am not a part. I'm also a bit intimidated because most of them are rich and older than me. We are not equals, except at the poker table. So it's hard for me to make conversation or banter as an equal. If that makes sense.

Also ya there is no start time. It is a weird game. It's all just spontaneous via text. Can be on various days/times or not go at all for awhile.

I would say this game is at the very top of the games I am rolled for and I am a bankroll nit. So while I can 'afford' it, I'm still cautious. But I will try as I said to play regardless of the lineup, and see if that improves the situation.

So if I decide to leave the game, are you saying it would be smarter to just go home? That's rough but I guess I could do that.

Never had a chance to. I've run like god in the game. Only had one 10 BB loss, otherwise I have crushed. Part of the problem. They see me raping the game and don't like it. This I am not willing to modify

That's great to hear because for me that is the hardest to fix.

It's not the same but I agree I am manipulating things in a way that pisses people off. And I'll try to stop doing that. Both so they have a better time and so I get invited to play more often.

Thanks again.

not even close, dude

Sounds like this game is good somewhere between 99 and 100 percent of the time. Asking who is playing insults them. So I think you've come to the right conclusion.

Start drinking.

OP, what limits/game type is this. how many hours have you recorded so far? total $/hr?

i ask b/c it's nearly impossible to have not recorded a >10bb loss if you've played an extended period of time unless you leave as soon as you lose like 8-9 bets.

also, weird game w/ no start time that "goes when it goes" and you don't get texts for anymore? i'd tip the floor/dealers/somebody to have them text you when it goes. give'em $50 or $100 for this service (Depending on your answers to the first questions above).

not really. you shouldn't leave the game, really. you should play as long as possible and not leave based on the game composition/how you're doing in the game. again, this seems to be a rare game that is quite good, live, local, and it needs actual work/care to keep it going. players who treat it as a personal atm and are seen to do that are terrible for the game b/c it makes others not want to play. so your decision to leave the game should be basically "don't" pretty much whenever you'd previously have made a decision to leave.

your first step now is to figure out how to even get into the game when it goes. floor/dealers should help w/ that for $.

Don't seat change. Dont quit to play smaller. Start games. Keep the game going when it's short. Let them button you. When you have to leave a short handed game, give notice. Don't squeeze every cent of EV from non-playing situations (seat changing, game selection, etc)

Awesome stuff. Thanks guys.

My next thread: how to play well drunk

P.S. Babar, you don't play in this game by any chance, do you? Your reply + some other stuff, makes me think I might know who you are.

If you play tonight, just sing "Happy Birthday." If some guy gets embarrassed and says, "Thanks", it might be him.

+1000

nope not me. haven't played live in a while.

How far do I take never leaving? 3-handed? Heads up? Assume neutral EV.

If someone wants to play hu or 3 handed, you should accommodate them.

Ya I mean, of the people who would want to, if I put in some work away from the table, I can likely swing neutral/slight -EV to a slight +EV. I guess I've been going at this the lazy way heh

Just pretend you own a bar and they are your customers. You are not talking to them and closing the doors when they are not drinking enough. There are other bars near by...

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what game is this? what stakes are you playing? this is a private game at a casino? how does that work?

semi-private. if i'm there they can't keep me off the table (probably by law). but they don't have to invite me.

i gave the girl who runs the board $50 today and told her to text me whenever the game is about to start. she seemed pleased with that arrangement

I often wonder how poker players function in normal society.

Tips for being not weird:

1. It's okay to let most conversation drift by. You don't need to be a part of everything said, even if - and perhaps especially if - it's something you actually want to talk about. If it's an inopportune time to jump in, don't.

2. Pick some common ground, no matter how marginally common. Most people watch sports. When they talk about your favorite sport, say something interesting. If you don't follow a sport you can fake it too. Football is convenient to fake follow because it only happens once a week.

Sports betting is something a lot of people do. Asking whether someone has money on a game where something interesting happened is a great way to pretend to be more interested than you are.

3. In general, asking questions and getting people talking about themselves makes them feel better than yakking about yourself the whole time. Ask where they work. Tell them you had a relative / friend who did a similar thing. Relay a funny story. They'll tell a better one, and you just have to listen and laugh. Just keep lobbing them conversation softballs for them to hit home runs. They will think you're cool(er than you are).

4. If you don't want to tell them you're a pro, make up a story about yourself. Don't say you're an "equity trader" or something vaguely financial because a lot of people are actual Wall St equity traders and then your lie is instarevealed. Say you're starting a business and you're waiting for a big shipment, or applying to go back to school. Pick a field where you can field some intelligent questions.

OP I find it weird that you've been asked what game type and stakes 3ish times and haven't answered? Is there a reason?

If not:what type of game is spread and what are the limits (stakes).

For the record, I don't think the OP should answer. Even if it's no big deal, he should protect other semi-private games by flatting his entire answering range.

fresno, its always fresno

This is so simple, obvious, and true.
Agree with what you're saying.

Pincus, you have an opportunity to play in a game that is far too good for its stakes. You seem reluctant to invest in the situation. Why? If you look at your EV for the year, you'd be better off playing even if you had to give up your extreme online bum hunting behavior.

I've played in actual invite only home games. You want to crush them and get invited back, do what OnTheRail15 said. Show up on time. Be willing to play as long as anyone else at the table wants to. Stay to the end, even buried. Don't make silly requests. Help people out. Be a human being at the table. Don't talk about your wins or how bad the bad players are.

Ask a couple questions, and you might find out that people are interesting even if not great at poker -- actually, extreme focus on poker could tend to make them more boring. Found out the guy sitting next to me has two superbowl rings and heard some funny stories related to his job. Couple hours later, find the guy on the other side owns several apartment complexes. He drops some amazing investment advice. Now we're having fun, part of the group, and likely to get invited back. This isn't pure maximizing behavior and isn't pretend, you're going to sit next to someone for 6 hours. Normal humans ask "what do you do for a living" or "do you have any kids".

If you talk about EV, hourly rate, outs, or ranges for 3 betting, and then snap quit to follow the biggest fish out the door, expect them to block your number on their phones.