Hi Everyone:

In Hold 'em Poker for Advanced Players the following appears on page 26:

This was written in 1999 and in the more aggressive games of today, this advice can't be correct. Against today's players, if you're not in the big blind, going to four bets has to be correct, and when in the big blind just calling the three bets is probably best.

Of course, if you know the players you're up against are on the very tight side, especially the three bettor, then the fold would be the best play. But in the games I currently play in, this would rarely be the case.

Best wishes,
Mason

Thanks for the update.

Hi Mason,

I agree with this assessment. I would probably be capping tens too. Nines might be the 1999 jacks.

In Vegas games (where Mason plays) the cap is 5 bets, not 4.

hi Mason, thx for update.

Yeah it seem a lot as changed...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...6/index27.html

ps: when i say good relative position we actually have the worst relative position by simply calling, only good thing is to be able to c/r if we like our hand facing the field for 2 but we have a super bad position for peeling purpose on a lot of boards...

I mean not 3betting AK must be bad today while it may have been ok when the book was written...

Do you have a link where you put your estimation value of the books you have read like roy cooke and another book i start reading as well today that i heard good thing about it...

How Good Is Your Limit Hold 'Em?
Book by Byron Jacobs and Jim Brier


i mean i have not finish both books yet i will but i really think there is some strange thing in there pf and postflop and i wonder what ratings you gave them when you read it.

i did for now find less thing that are bothersome in roy cooke book than Mr. Jacobs and Brier but anyway, must be me that is too weak to agree but anyway, i am curious about your toughs about those 2 books.

thx

Hi Montrealcorp:

I read the Cooke book many years back and gave it a good review then, but don't remember it well enough to comment on it today.

As for the Jacobs/Brier book I have no idea. I may have looked at it years ago but have no memory of its content.

Best wishes,
Mason

Any thoughts on AQ in today's mid limit games vs. What was written then, vs. The AQ test in Feeney's book, etc.

Thanks,
Jeff

Epic thread right here.

What do we do with JJ if tight soldier opens UTG and Mason was the one who 3 bet? Probably a fold

An expert player will base his reraising range on the raising range of the initial raiser. So in your example folding the jacks should be correct.

By the way, years ago, when you were probably still in diapers, the raising range of most players, especially in early position, was much tighter than it is today. Thus the advice in our book.

MM

Hi Jeffage:

Years ago, when John Feeney wrote his book, the raising range of many players in early and middle position was much restricted compared to what we see today. So in many spots it would be correct to fold an ace-queen offsuit if there was a raise in front of you.

In Hold 'em Poker for Advanced Players, we do talk about some players who were what we called loose raisers and recommend to three-bet them with any ace-queen. Today, at least in the games I play in, you would need very good reason not to three-bet a raiser with an ace-queen. By the way, it's also my opinion that if it's correct to reraise your early position raises (in a full ring game) with ace-queen offsuit, your early position raising range is probably too loose.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi Mason,

What is the narrowest range of the EP raiser who has to have before you start 3-betting him?

Mason, AQ is gonna be like 51-54% agaiant a solid tight UTG range. So you either probably play to tight UTG or play to tight vs EP raisers.

Even if they are a super but and fold A-10 and 77 UTG (lol at doing this in a 20 game) AQo still gets to play hand in position with dead money from
Blinds and 50% equity

This is important but your own position is also important.

I think utg+1 vs. utg, AQo should be folded against many players even in today's games. But should be 3 bet from button as a pretty standard line.

Okay. You need to stop it. If your AQo is 51 to 54 percent you should always 3 bet. The typical tight UTG raiser today, in the games I play in, is no where near as tight as they were 20 years ago.

At that time, they didn't necessarily fold the hands you mention, but they would often limp.

MM

Agree AQ is a 3b v almost everyone, and a 4b in spots that come up in today's aggressive games, but A-10 utg? I would fold this in a full 20 game and didn't think it was that close.

Stop what? You said "By the way, it's also my opinion that if it's correct to reraise your early position raises (in a full ring game) with ace-queen offsuit, your early position raising range is probably too loose."

I think this is wrong. My point was if we open a correct/appropriate range UTG its still going to be correct to 3 bet us with AQo.

If your point is at some point in time there existed a game where people did not open AQo UTG and against that range we should not 3 bet AQo then yes I agree with you.

Hi PocketKings:

I'm not sure what your question is. You would always 3-bet with aces. Generally, unless I have reason to think differently, I assume the UTG raiser in a full ring game has a 10 percent range, but this is still probably a little too tight for many of today's players.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi CrazyLord:

I don't agree. I think you need very specific information on the player to make this fold even if your position is UTG+1, and it would only, in my experience, be correct against a small number of players. Perhaps where you're located that might be different, but this 3-bet is fairly automatic for me.

Best wishes,
Mason

Seems like CL is really more worried about what players may wake up with behind him than with the range of the opener, when he's in early position.

As Jon said, AQo is only a 51-54% favorite versus most utg opens. But when you still have 7 players behind you to act, there is a 12% chance one of them has AK or QQ or better (ignoring card removal of utg's range), all hands that have us in really bad shape. And I think this tips the balance to a fold a lot of the time.

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Hi CrazyLond:

The blind money should still make it correct to make the 3-bet with AQo.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi Ghost:

I agree that ATo should be folded UTG, but I do play ATs in this spot. I also agree with your other comments on AQ.

Best wishes,
Mason

And I think that you're wrong. Position, especially when early, in my opinion is much moire detrimental than most people think. For example, if UTG there is a big difference between AQo and ATo. But if first in late, the difference is not as great.

I never said anything like this ever, so quit making things up to prove your point.

MM