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Old 05-18-2017, 11:41 AM   #1
jdr0317
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I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

10/20 OL

BTN seems like somewhat of an action player. Already seen him defend BB v a BTN limp and my SB raise w/ J6o and peel 877r, saw him take a xc xr line with 87 on J75-4, and saw him donk KcQ on A55cc after I had opened BTN and capped against his 3 bet and BB cold call. Seems straightforward post with his value hands; he seems to prefer jamming flop (albeit in a small sample of roughly 40 hands).

SB is a TAG reg whom I've a lot of history with, but I'm not sure if he knows I know who he is (but I know he knows who I am). Most of our history is on another site. He generally has seen me fastplay my big hands; also knows I'm fairly tight from the BB facing this action, but that I'm going to peel on this flop with a ton of my range. I also think he'd think I'd just jam my big hands given relative positions.

I have KK BB

Action:

BTN opens, SB 3 bets, I call, BTN calls.

Flop (9 sb): 942 (could be mixed up, but 2 hearts)

SB bets, I call, BTN calls

Turn (6 BB): 6

SB bets, I raise, BTN cold calls, SB calls

River (12 BB): J

SB checks, we?

Last edited by jdr0317; 05-18-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:29 PM   #2
Bob148
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

I'd bet. Then I'd call for one raise but I'd fold for two.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:16 PM   #3
ninefingershuffle
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

Seems like a bet/call. I like the hand as played.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:17 PM   #4
boc4life
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

Calling the flop is really really really bad. You already under-repped your hand preflop, which is fine (There is a very strong argument to be made for never capping in this spot). But to not raise the flop is absolutely criminal. You're winning less money in your good spots, you're winning the pot less often, and you're setting yourself up to be in much more difficult spots later in the hand. When you raise the flop, your hand looks like something like 77, A9, something in that area. When you raise the turn, your hand looks like a set. By taking this line, you stop hands like TT or 9x from spewing at you on later streets, and you wind up over-repping your hand on the turn, making it more difficult to get river value bets.

As played you should bet the river and call for one more bet.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:08 PM   #5
phunkphish
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

I really like flop call. There's a 2 and 4; we have a big heart. Giving a free card let's them catch up to a lot of 2nd best hands.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:21 PM   #6
rodeo
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

I'd raise the flop.

As played, I'd b/c one bet.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:31 PM   #7
Montrealcorp
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

+1 boc and rod

i would like more the flop call if we would actually cap pf ( i dislike both flop call play btw..)
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:05 PM   #8
jdr0317
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

So my standard is to raise flop, but what hands are we calling with so that our range isn't just a whole metric s***ton of A hi? Flatting 44/22 is totally absurd because we can smash b/3/call 4 any turn with those hands.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:01 PM   #9
Jon_locke
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish View Post
I really like flop call. There's a 2 and 4; we have a big heart. Giving a free card let's them catch up to a lot of 2nd best hands.
I like flop call as well, while TT may not spew ok later streets hey almost cetisot will riase flop and never fold so we don't miss much value. Not to mention so many times when overcard hits and we get to b/3b turn vs hands hat will fold to flop raise.

If you are going to raise this flop given relative position I'd just cap pre. Calling let's opener out way to cheap.

The one question I have is what Happena when we call and button raises (and sb calls). I think I just go ahead and back 3 bet becusse it's fun and people will immediately put us on flush draw and give tons of action to KK. The risk of button check back is jsut to high to delay I think
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:11 PM   #10
jdr0317
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

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Originally Posted by Jon_locke View Post
I like flop call as well, while TT may not spew ok later streets hey almost cetisot will riase flop and never fold so we don't miss much value. Not to mention so many times when overcard hits and we get to b/3b turn vs hands hat will fold to flop raise.

If you are going to raise this flop given relative position I'd just cap pre. Calling let's opener out way to cheap.

The one question I have is what Happena when we call and button raises (and sb calls). I think I just go ahead and back 3 bet becusse it's fun and people will immediately put us on flush draw and give tons of action to KK. The risk of button check back is jsut to high to delay I think
Ya my plan was to 3 bet if BTN raised.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:26 PM   #11
leavesofliberty
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

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Originally Posted by phunkphish View Post
I really like flop call. There's a 2 and 4; we have a big heart. Giving a free card let's them catch up to a lot of 2nd best hands.
+1
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:41 PM   #12
leavesofliberty
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

These slowplays will lead to tough decisions on the turn, but can still be worth it.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:47 AM   #13
Montrealcorp
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

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Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
So my standard is to raise flop, but what hands are we calling with so that our range isn't just a whole metric s***ton of A hi? Flatting 44/22 is totally absurd because we can smash b/3/call 4 any turn with those hands.
Not sure how wide you call in BB but beside Ahigh you shoud not call a lots .
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:50 AM   #14
Montrealcorp
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

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Originally Posted by Jon_locke View Post
If you are going to raise this flop given relative position I'd just cap pre. Calling let's opener out way to cheap.
yes and no, by not capping you have good info to see if BU cap or not and it gives you the chance to cold call with a wider range pf imo.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:52 AM   #15
Jon_locke
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

Except most buttons don't cap anything here and will jsut fold their cheese when it's two cold to them on flop
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:53 AM   #16
Jules22
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

I'm betting the riv and calling one single raise like another poster said. Ni ha
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:12 AM   #17
monikrazy
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

Btn being aggro makes check/call seem to be at least an ok option here vs what would otherwise be a very standard value bet, if hero bets I guess bet/folding vs the sb and calling off other guy is best

Last edited by monikrazy; 05-19-2017 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 05-20-2017, 06:20 PM   #18
jdr0317
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

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Originally Posted by Jon_locke View Post
Except most buttons don't cap anything here and will jsut fold their cheese when it's two cold to them on flop
IME not having a capping range is almost universally a 2+2 type player thing, and a lot of people will cap quite wide. See more weak showdown from fish and more multiway hands from the Ruskis.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:18 PM   #19
RobA
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

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Originally Posted by boc4life View Post
When you raise the flop, your hand looks like something like 77, A9, something in that area.
In 2017 when you raise the flop your hand looks more like KK. Doesn't it?

Despite this I still think your post was an A+.... Need constant reminders to not overdo stuff.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:25 PM   #20
leavesofliberty
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

I'm checking the river. I mean, what does the cold-caller have that we beat? 99-AA are all possible, and AX is possible as well as XY.
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Old 06-12-2017, 09:36 AM   #21
Ibreakgames
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

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Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
Btn being aggro makes check/call seem to be at least an ok option here vs what would otherwise be a very standard value bet, if hero bets I guess bet/folding vs the sb and calling off other guy is best
same here, but I would cap pre. There's too much fun to be had with all that action.
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:30 AM   #22
UpHillBothWays
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Re: I make an expert slowplay and end up in a spot

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but I would cap pre.
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