20/40 HK Killer is btn, loose gambley rec. other villain is BB, very bad loose passive, bad hand reader.

I'm UTG 6 handed and open JJ, BTN calls, BB calls

Q42r

Check, I bet they call

J

Check, I bet they call

9

Check, I bet, btn raises, bb 3 bets.

I can't fold fast enough.

Really? We lose to KT, T8, and QQ. If villains can have those hands, why can't they also have 44, 22,99, Q9, AA, J9, and any other bizarro stuff? Button can have air right?

isn't K-10 a fan favorite in that game?

that said super tough to fold a set there.
could be a classic squeeze play
I call

Hand plays big.

There aren't that many 2 pair vs set vs set combos. The pot is actually pretty small given a single raise cold called PF, flop one bet, turn one bet. Still, we could have some slowplays we beat. I think I'm with you, call, and hate life.


We're getting like 7:1 not closing the action? More like 5:1 if it gets capped? If the read is that you're not good 1/10 of the time with 3+ bets going in the river, the snap fold suggestion has merit. If you think a set has to be good here 1/5 of the time even if capped, then you shrug, call, and expect to be beaten most of the time.


I don't know if people in this 20/40 game are nitty river raisers when the stakes are 30/60. Like if people just cold call on the river with 99...

Unless I’m playing 40 or higher, I assume raises on the big streets are the near nuts unless I have a specific player read otherwise. That said, I’ll usually pay off in a heads up situation cause #furcoats, but in a three way pot here a three c/cold is a fold for me

Change description of BB to “laggy creative crusher who reads hands well” and it could be a call. But this seems like semi-easy fold when BB is described as bad loose passive. For the sake of your sanity, I hope BTN didn’t have Q9 and BB had 99 and u folded.

Almost would’ve rather read the HH w/o reads

I think it's a fold but would need to be there to have a better feel.

I discount a bit worse sets from button because I would expect a "gambley" button to 3 bet with any pair pre. I realize that "gambley" doesn't necessarily mean agro. I'd also expect him to raise the flop or turn with top pair.

Combinatorially two pair with a J is less likely.

I realize the BB is a bad hand reader and could over play a hand but he is also described as passive. I think a passive player would see this river as perceptually scary after it is raised by the button.

It's a tough spot for sure.

I agree this could be a fold but so much depends on how one interrupts the descriptions. 'very bad loose passive, bad hand reader' almost equates to 'beginner' for me and beginners do lots of weird stuff. Also, I hate folding sets.

FWIW BB is not a regular player and will show up with KT at the river at frequencies you'd expect a random bad player to have. So we don't have to add extra combos because lolfoxwoods.

I think you have to reconsider your priors a little. Check/3bet river is by definition not a "loose passive" play. Sticking more with "very bad" descriptor, I'd be inclined to crying call down, thinking hands like 44 22 99 QJ are in play.

It's a loose passive play when said loose passive rivered the nuts FWIW, which pretty much means you think it's a fold.

so what happenend ? fold n would have won ?


fwiw id call n not get too worried about it. unless i had a lot of hours with the 3 bettor..

IMO, a passive player would lead out with the nuts, rather than go for CR.

Big difference between c/r and c/3b

I actually thought this was a pretty trivial, though annoying, fold at game speed. Both players are capable of getting to the river this way w/ all 16 KT combos and even some T8 (call it 4). So that's 20 combos of hands each could potentially want to raise.

Having JJ kind of sucks because I block two pair combos for them to be raising as well.

I'm getting 13.5:2 not closing the action (whipsaw scenario would be 5.5:1). So I need to be good somewhere between 12.9% and 15.3%. I'll call it 14%.

If we assume ranges are independent, I need to beat each player around 37.4%. So they need around 12 combos each for me to break even. That's probably true.

However, they Aren't independent, and every non-straight one has, adds straight weight to the other. So I decided that I have to live w/ the fact that raiser could have Q9 and 3 bettor could have 99 and fold.

You must have some worst of all time nominees in your games if they're donking KT after this flop and turn action.

tu salude
I would have to see BB's K-10 backdoor straight draw.
I cry call and mourn the set cracking.
even though at game speed I'm muttering to myself seriously....
say nice hand and console myself knowing those chips aren't staying with BB long

This is a frustrating call, but a must call situation. I have seen similar hands play out to often whereby the raisers on the river are simply overvaluing their hands. They either flopped a set and were slow playing til the river or made two pair and just go crazy. In my early days I would fold here occasionally, only to be sick when I saw the above described type hands get opened up..........If any of these players are bad enough to call here on the flop with KT or T8, then they are also bad enough to overplay their hands on the river...

There are two opponents here. Quite a parlay for both of them to be overplaying given the action.

sorry....bad mood , w.e!
Easiest call ever.

I hate this title thread.
If i have to choose between this hand and a 500 BB downswing to not hate poker then i choose this hand.
Yeah im feeling it right now and if that is a bad beat, i had bad beat lately far worst than this.
If u make a super good fold here, congrats.
But a super good fold for me = a standard call down in any game for me.
yeah i suck its ok...
what i mean is that i need to at least have 2 draws that hit to fold a hand this strong, not just a runner runner draw.

Best name since Mubsy Bogues.