unless you have some specific read. You have the nut blocker to nut flush it going to kill decent combos. There going to be a non zero chance he will do this bluffing as the standard line nowadays is to donk check on an A. I guess riv isn't that bad since 86 just got there but i wouldn't fold just because of his combos flush

Death Donkey says maybe don't bet the turn at all, but pokerchris wants to bet/3-bet.

Checking is fine if you think you are going to induce a bluff from hands that won’t call on the turn.If don’t think my opponent will 4 bet because he can’t have the nuts I would 3 bet. Gets checked on river and you earn an extra bet when you hit. If you think it is likely your opponent will 4 bet with a wide range, then flatting is correct. As with most things multiple lines are correct. If you aren’t behind not a ton your opponent can make to beat you, so checking to induce a bluff when winning and save a few when losing is reasonable play.

experts dont defend their big blind to an utg raise with q5o

I used to post like pokerchris when I was running hot as ****.

Now I just keep my mouth shut because I know better what I don't know.

They'd have equity vs your range, and a lot of hands that have equity is the ace, or suited aces and it's good to have some value-check hands, so I like value-checking the KK here.

Checking has a lot of merit and probably best turn play.

You save two bets when behind and you gain one bet when you opponent has poop stains and bluffs river.

Your hand really isn't vunerable to hands that don't already have you beat. Yeah, you can lose to scabby two pair and straights that may have folded the turn, but probably worth it.

As hand was played, hero should strongly consider 3 betting. The nut blocker should discourage villain from 4 betting. If hero believes villains 4 betting range to be wide, I suppose just call, if it is narrow, pop him. First, you may win the hand there. Two, you gain an extra bet when you hit river and if you think opponent scared of you having the nuts, will cost you no more to make it to showdown.

As previously stated, I like this play better from the cutoff than utg, as villain will define your range narrower, with most hands no having a flush (especially if he has Q of spades in his hand)

I would sleep fine as well if I were you as a river fold (IMO) is a marginally better play than calling. As played I think you should bet the turn as well and I don't think its really close (I would check back 88-99 as well as jdr mentioned). Not many players are check-raising this turn again with two pair, sets, or made flushes. They will usually just go for immediate value with hopes of getting 3! by AQ-AK and Aces w spade kicker/free showdown/bet river if you catch. I agree with steveistheman when he said "whatever this guy's doing with less than kk seems like a bigger mistake than folding kk's if he is" . Sometimes going for a weird 10-1 variance play like Villain may have done will accidentally work.

A key piece of information that needs to be mentioned here is that a lot of the semi-pros/pros in this game probably have SD frequencies up to 10-20% lower than "GTO" because they can exploit a large majority of the field pretty well. Most of the recreational players basically never take creative lines, never check-raise semi-bluff, and never bluff raise rivers. However, these pros often have the habit of overfolding too much vs. thinking players as a result. They are so geared toward how 85%+ of field plays who do not take such lines, and the pros do not increase their SD frequencies enough for the other 15%.

The Villain in this hand may or may not have been on his 20th+ hour of play for the weekend and not immediately conceptualized in his head that Hero obviously understands SD frequencies better than the rest of the field too. If, for example, a different Hero in this particular game had KK w no spade, he would often bet and fold turn to a xR v given Villain.

And don't check raise flop with it if they accidentally misclicked called, thinking some fish opened late and not a player opening reasonable EP ranges. And then don't check raise turn holding a key bluff card he'd want his opponent to have.

I do think, revisiting the spot, that checking back as DD and Rodeo suggest is a much superior play.

And others. I suspect the xr by most straightforward opponents are at worst AX with a spade. Against villain as described, I lean towards folding the river.

If only someone had advocated checking back against an expert in post #2

I think of all 88-kk, 77, ak/aq/aj/ats on the turn I'd

B/f 88-99 for thin value,
B/c tt-jj -for value,
Xb qq-kk as wawb since no river can really hurt us, while very littleworse will call

Bet 39 combos of ax

Against an expert, I'd prolly station more since over stationing is always a smaller mistake than hero folding a ton

Thinking more about this,

My range on the turn is like
Sets, (6 combos)
88-kk (36 combos)
Ak/aq/aj/ats (39 combos)
Bunch of suited Broadways down to T9s (12-28 depending how out of line I get)

Villains range is ace heavy since he flat pre and flat flop.

I believe villain should thus donk a lot of turns and if he doesn't then we should value bet a ton still since we have a decent portion of bluffs)

Maybe kqs and kjs should xb turn since those have some showdown value, but sometimes I raise utg with t9s

Eh I guess villain should take wawb lines with his ax on the turn since those are wawb at around 50/50 ratio of heros values that beat ax to values that loses to ax. Donking or K/r'ing them doesn't really makes sense. Also the wawb line will just scoop pots from heros who got out of line pre and over bluff

Heros range on the turn is still very strong. Hero can and should bet the turn with a lot of hands.

Tiger that’s all well and good but villain checkraised the flop

Haha sorry. Convincing in numbers.

An east coast, TAGish, high limit expert is very unlikely to check-raise virtually any UTG raiser two streets (with an Ace on board nonetheless) and then lead the river without having you beat by the turn. You don't have a protected pot, though, which means calling the river is acceptable in this case, even though you are expecting to lose more than half of the time.

However, the turn card presents a "way ahead or way behind" situation where checking behind was probably the correct play and one that I favor here--Even against this expert you still may induce a bluff on the river if you had him crushed. And, of course, you keep the pot smaller if he does have you beat, as is very likely the case here.

Whoops, thought villain k/c flop.

I'm not sure what I'd do on the turn donk check. I'd assume villains range is not ace heavy. It's prolly a bunch of 5 outer draws, 2 outer draws, 2 pairs, flushes, and sets.

Kk makes sense to bluff catch as it also blocks 3 combos villain can potentially have. I'm unsure what I should do with the remainder of my range.

I can see losing some sleep on it. Much depends on what you know about your opponent's strategy.

I think this hand should've been posted at the point of the turn getting checked to Hero. It's real easy to say the hand should be checked back when you see Hero gets checkraised again. Now, I'm not saying checking back the turn isn't the play -- it's just way easier to suggest it once you know we got checkraised again.

I think this hand is magnificent ? Is that the word?

I wonder:

1- Does the villain know that OP has a lot of respect for his game?

2- What is the OP's image in villain's eyes?

3- What was the OP's thought process on the turn when villain checked after check-raising the flop? To me that is a very important key to the whole puzzle.

Myself I would have checked the turn. As played I would have three bet the turn and go from there.

A part of me says OP was beaten, a part of me says he was outplayed. Wel'll never know for sure....

However, it's just a game.

I hardly play limit hold'em so I was curious about this range.

What is the lowest pair an expert typically 3bets pre vs an UTG? So in other words how many are left to c/r?

Basically everything got there on turn or river even 86 as someone else mentioned

Expert likely 3b nothing pre vs 6off open.

I would only have a 3 bet range from BB in this spot if my opponent is truly awful.