OTB, I'd definitely cap any suited Ace/King of the flush draw, any flush draw + pair. With overcard/backdoor straight or pair + flush draw 3-ways, easy equity favorite. It's not even for a free card, just value.

KTo is actually a weaker draw IMO, 1 less out, more straight chop possibilities or full house possibilities when you hit vs. the other ranges. I.e. you hit an A, likely BB has additional chop/boat outs vs. your straight, or a 9 will more likely lead to a chop vs. SB's range. With a flush draw, when you hit, straights can't improve and most of the cards you are looking for won't 2-pair/set up the BB.

I think I've said too much already, but it's the holidays, so let's pretend it's 2004 and sing kumbaya.

What is button's play on the turn with Aces and Kings? Does it ever include checking back on turn bricks to get a cheap showdown?

I would think good players aren’t four betting kind on this flop with this hands and if they did they’d be betting the turn for the cheap down instead of Kerri f two players draw to half the deck

The button can "profitably" cap AT/KT with the 3rd player in, even against a strong BB 3-bet range. These hands should make up more of the range for villain than 2 pair combos. Something like AA/KK for villain is unlikely with the preflop action, but AQ/KQ are other possible hands that you beat. Hero should probably be leading the turn despite the flop cap with at least KK+. Whether to 3-bet a turn raise is probably close with the 3rd player in, and possibility you're still ahead. No reason to think they'd stop raising with 88 or QJ, but T9 will have the most combos.

yeah I'm definitely starting to second guess the turn b3b. I kinda feel like knowing the individual player would help a ton in a spot like this. Vs most non spazzy winners bet calling is probably better.

Against winning 20/40 canterbury limit holdem players a b3b is warranted vs almost all of them.

if you bet, bn raises, and sb folds, calling is ok. but if sb calls i like a 3b

Some really good **** in this thread. I think there's a bit of a disconnect though regarding how many bets to put in with certain parts of our range here:

Either we have a donking range or we don't; either way is fine with me but if we do have a donking range and we laid out our range from strongest to weakest:

then the strongest hands should be bet 3 bet / then a small range of check raise call down hands / then a larger range of bet calldown hands.

Seems like some have flip flopped here from (bet 3 bet) to (bet call), skipping over the option to check raise calldown.

or if we don't have a donking range and we ranked our hands from strongest to weakest:

check raise 4 bet / check raise calldown / check calldown / check fold

I think these two sets of action ranges are our options. Due to all of my online play and my experience with rarely seeing turns check through in such spots, I check raise calldown here as default. However, this part hits home for me:

Your experience trumps mine DD, but I also like this point by Wolfram:

So I'm torn.

I think that the deciding factor is the small blind now. He should be more likely to call one and fold for two bets, thus we best trap him by check raising the turn.

imo.

Its not a one or the other. What does lond think the good players range is after a turn raise against him? Some will raise two pair, some won’t raise 88.

Just want to mention that leading into a previous street capper (after putting in the penultimate raise yourself) is not quite the same as a donk bet.

I would be pretty surprised if he didn't raise 88. I think he'd raise some, but not all, 2 pair combos.

Also, I should mention the game has a 4 bet cap.

Combos may depend on the suit spread of the jacks but if he’ll raise two pair when you lead the turn I’m b/3b’ing, if he doesn’t I’m b/c’ing

Most interesting to me are hypothetical PF ranges.

This PF situation happens so rarely, the post-flop action and actual board are not that useful as a teaching / learning tool.

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Preflop, I think CO should be raising ~100.
When he doesn't, it's safe to assume he's a fish, and likely has a decapitated / severely decapitated range. BTN should be raising super wide hoping a blind colludes with him and 3b's wide to kick out CO.

I was thinking in this game my default is to b/c the turn unless you know button is a spewtard. Against the player described in this hand I don’t think I want to b/3b the turn